From owner-ibis Mon Feb 2 10:58:51 1998 Received: from newsgw.mentorg.com (newsgw.mentorg.com [137.202.128.5]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA10984; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:58:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from emicx.wv.mentorg.com by newsgw.mentorg.com (8.6.8.1/CF5.22R) id KAA29093; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:55:52 -0800 Received: from bob by emicx.wv.mentorg.com (8.7.5/CF5.38R) id KAA07946; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:55:50 -0800 (PST) From: bobr@emicx.mentorg.com (Bob Ross) Received: by bob (4.1/CF5.23L) id AA06713; Mon, 2 Feb 98 10:55:58 PST Date: Mon, 2 Feb 98 10:55:58 PST Message-Id: <9802021855.AA06713@bob> To: atulapt@giascl01.vsnl.net.in Subject: Re: Series enhancement queries Cc: ibis@eda.org, ibischk-bug@eda.org Atul: Sorry for the delay in responding. As previously mentioned, I and several other people were out of town. When I got back, I needed to deal with several other issues requiring less thinking before I could focus on your questions. My responses are embedded in your questions. Comments from others are welcome. this is being copied to the ibis reflector for information. Best Regards Bob > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:45:20 +0500 > To: bobr (Bob Ross) > From: "Atul P. Agarwal" > Subject: Series enhancement queries > Hello Bob > Thank you for the previous clarifications. Here are some more > queries on the Series enhancements. > a) For the Series and Series_switch models which of the following > keywords should be allowed or disallowed ? For the ones that are > disallowed, should there be an error or warning ? I am filling your table with only those entries for which the ERROR (E) and WARNING (W) messages should be issued. The rest are allowed. W > [Model Spec] Currently permitted even when not applicable E > [Driver Schedule] > [Temperature Range] > [Voltage Range] Previously defined reference hierarchy > [Pullup Reference] still applies here, even if some are > [Pulldown Reference] not used. > [POWER Clamp Reference] > [GND Clamp Reference] E > [TTgnd] E > [TTpower] E > [Pulldown] E > [Pullup] E > [GND Clamp] E > [POWER Clamp] E > [Ramp] E > [Rising Waveform] E > [Falling Waveform] > b) For the keywords above which are allowable for Series_switch, do they > need to be specified twice, both under [On] and [Off] keywords if a user > wants them to be meaningful both under the on and off states ? Both [On] and [Off] should be required. The both must be filled with a meaningful entry (see below). The keywords used under [On] could be different than used under [Off]. For example the series switch sample under eda.org/pup/ibis/samples/ver3.0/cbt.ibs uses [Series MOSFET] for the [On] model and [R Series] for a high impedance [Off] model. > Is the [Series MOSFET] keyword valid under the [Off] keyword or should it be > specified only under the [On] keyword ? The [Series MOSFET] is invalid and meaningless under the [Off] keyword. > c) If [Ramp] is not a required keyword for Series and Series_switch models > there needs to be an editorial change under [Ramp] > | > Keyword: [Ramp] > Required: Yes, except for inputs, terminators, Series and Series_switch model > types. > | Thank you for that correction. This will be made as an editioral correction. > d) For the Series and Series_switch models which of the following > sub parameters should be allowed or disallowed ? For the ones that are > disallowed, should there be an error or warning ? > Polarity > Enable > Vinl > Vinh > C_comp > Vmeas > Cref > Rref > Vref The ibischk2 parser does not issue any warnings for non-used subparameters under [Model]. None of the above are used, but no message should be issued. If we were to add such messages, then we would have to do it for all model types, under [Model]. By other rules. C_comp remains required, but not used. > e) Is an empty [On] or [Off] keyword section allowed ? > | > [On] > [Off] > [R_series] ....... > | Empty [On] or [Off] sections should be flagged as an error. While we could default to a high impedance, I would rather require the model developer to put in what he/she wants. Otherwise we would not know if the omission was a mistake or was intended. > f) What is the maximum number of [Series MOSFET] keywords allowed per > series model. For the waveforms, the parser has a limit of 100. This is not specified. I would check against 100, just as with waveform tables. In practice, I do not expect to ever see that many [Series MOSFET] models. > Can there be two [Series MOSFETS] keywords with the > same value for Vds or should this be flagged as an error ? This should be an Error since the tables could be different. The simulator could not process both. > Thanks > atul From owner-ibis Mon Feb 2 11:05:02 1998 Received: from newsgw.mentorg.com (newsgw.mentorg.com [137.202.128.5]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA11035; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:05:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from emicx.wv.mentorg.com by newsgw.mentorg.com (8.6.8.1/CF5.22R) id LAA29629; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:02:14 -0800 Received: from bob by emicx.wv.mentorg.com (8.7.5/CF5.38R) id LAA08018; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:02:09 -0800 (PST) From: bobr@emicx.mentorg.com (Bob Ross) Received: by bob (4.1/CF5.23L) id AA06716; Mon, 2 Feb 98 11:02:17 PST Date: Mon, 2 Feb 98 11:02:17 PST Message-Id: <9802021902.AA06716@bob> To: atulapt@giascl01.vsnl.net.in Subject: Re: Clarifications Cc: ibis@eda.org, ibischk-bug@eda.org Atul: Here are some additional responses. This is also copied to the IBIS reflector for information. Best Regards, Bob Interconnectix BU > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:20:55 +0000 (GMT) > From: "APT SOFTWARE AVENUES PVT.LTD" > To: Bob Ross > Subject: Clarifications > Hello Bob > I had sent you a list of queries about a week back but have > not heard from you. I hope that you did receive it. If not > I can send it again. > Meanwhile here are a couple more for you to look at. > 1) In the IBIS Tree diagram for Version 3.0 (which you had > given me), the [Model Selector] keyword is indicated within > the [Component] scope. Now, a model selector is nothing > but a "stand-in" for a model and models are defined at file > scope. By this logic, shouldn't a [Model Selector] be at the > file scope also ? In my opinion the scope of [Model Selector] should remain under [Component], just as shown in the Tree diagram. This allows a different [Component] in the same file which will access similar models to have a different default model and different configurations. For example, a different component may not offer a reduced set of selections since one of the pins controling the selection may be NC. > 2) Under DOS, as soon as a model has been parsed, the data structures > associated with the model are released to free the memory. I guess > it is OK to keep those data structures around which will be needed > to perform some checks after the complete file has been parsed, > say, in the case of [Driver Schedule]. I am comfortable with this approach. I do not see any problem. > thanks for your help > -- atul From owner-ibis Mon Feb 2 13:57:55 1998 Received: from newsgw.mentorg.com (newsgw.mentorg.com [137.202.128.5]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA14315; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:57:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from emicx.wv.mentorg.com by newsgw.mentorg.com (8.6.8.1/CF5.22R) id NAA13476; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:55:01 -0800 Received: from bob by emicx.wv.mentorg.com (8.7.5/CF5.38R) id NAA14681; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:54:59 -0800 (PST) From: bobr@emicx.mentorg.com (Bob Ross) Received: by bob (4.1/CF5.23L) id AA06970; Mon, 2 Feb 98 13:55:06 PST Date: Mon, 2 Feb 98 13:55:06 PST Message-Id: <9802022155.AA06970@bob> To: harunys@haselect.com, ibis-users@eda.org, ibis@eda.org Subject: Re: Consistancy between various simulators using IBIS models Haruny: This would be a good study for the IBIS Users group. However, I want to keep company-specific issues off the IBIS reflectors. If there is any public discussion, then use the SI reflectors. Best Regards, Bob Ross Interconnectix > Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 00:59:28 -0500 > To: ibis@eda.org > From: Haruny Said > Subject: Consistancy between various simulators using IBIS models > Hi, > has anybody done any research or tests into how well the results from > different SI tools match up when using the same IBIS model to analyse the > same PCB design? > I ask because we get a lot of conflicting feedback about our models from > users of different tools. > Haruny Said > H.A.S. Electronics, Inc. > 33 Boston Post Rd West > Suite 270 > Marlborough > MA 01752 > Email: Harunys@haselect.com > WWW: http://www.haselect.com > Phone: (508) 624 6227 > Fax: (508) 624 6054 From owner-ibis Tue Feb 3 04:23:10 1998 Received: from mail11.digital.com (mail11.digital.com [192.208.46.10]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id EAA29714; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 04:23:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from sbuamazko2ae.zko.dec.com (sbuamazko2ae.zko.dec.com [16.29.160.92]) by mail11.digital.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/WV1.0c) with ESMTP id HAA03310; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:20:35 -0500 (EST) Received: by sbuamazko2ae.zko.dec.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:22:03 -0500 Message-ID: <890ED1999E9CD01197A10000F84AA1F783D4EF@sbuamapko3cc.eng.pko.dec.com> From: Andrew Ingraham To: ibis-users@eda.org, ibis@eda.org, "'John Berrie'" Subject: RE: Pin to model mapping Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:22:02 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain My guess: Either (a) the person who made the IBIS models didn't bother finding out the true pin/model mapping, leaving it as an "exercise for the user," or (b) the pinout wasn't fixed when the model was created. It's a pain in the neck because it can make the model unusable. Regards, Andy From owner-ibis Tue Feb 3 04:01:57 1998 Received: from redac.co.uk (redactcouk.redac.co.uk [193.132.126.2]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id EAA29393; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 04:01:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from redpo by redac.co.uk (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA29069; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:01:11 +0000 Received: from ACOL.redac.co.uk by redpo (SMI-8.6/Redac-Interior-Gateway-V1.1) id LAA08880; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:59:21 GMT Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980203120948.00698b70@redpo> X-Sender: johnb@redpo X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 12:09:48 +0000 To: ibis-users@eda.org, ibis@eda.org From: John Berrie Subject: Pin to model mapping Hello IBISers, Since we are currently in the process of constructing an IBIS extractor, it would be really useful if someone could answer the following question: In some of the IBIS part models on the web site, there is an incomplete mapping of pins to driver and receiver models. 1. Is this intentional? 2. Is there a default mapping which takes place if a pin within a part does not have an eplicit mapping? One of the parts only had two pin mappings, even though the part has more than 14 pins, and multiple drivers/receivers (a buffer chip). Thank you in advance John John Berrie Chief Application Engineer Dynamic Solutions Zuken-Redac Tewkesbury U.K. From owner-ibis Tue Feb 3 09:35:45 1998 Received: from ganymede.or.intel.com (ganymede.or.intel.com [134.134.248.3]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA05244 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:35:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from ichips-jf.jf.intel.com (ichips-jf.jf.intel.com [134.134.50.200]) by ganymede.or.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15946 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:36:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from xtg801 (xtg801.intel.com [134.134.120.169]) by ichips-jf.jf.intel.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA16532 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:33:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from ichips.intel.com by xtg801 (8.8.8/WW2.1) id JAA13496; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:33:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802031733.JAA13496@xtg801> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: ibis@eda.org Subject: EIA IBIS face-to-face meeting minutes 1/26 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 09:33:05 -0800 From: Stephen Peters DATE: 2/3/98 SUBJECT: 1/26/98 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1998 PARTICIPANTS LIST: AMP (Martin Freedman) Applied Simulation Technology Norio Matsui*, Raj Raghuram* Cadence Design & UniCAD C. Kumar*, Don Telian*, Patrick Riffault*, Craig Lewis*, Greg Fitzgerald*, Paul Galloway* Cypress (Bruce Wenniger) Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu, Greg Edlund*, Bob Haller* Hewlett Packard EEsof Karl Kachigan*, Henry Wu* Boise Paul Gregory* High Design Technology (Razvan Ene) HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli*, Matthew Flora* Incases Olaf Rethmeier, Scott Jacobson* Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern* Columbia, SC (formerly NCR) Dave Moxley Mentor Graphics Mark Noneman* Interconnectix Bob Ross* Zeelan Technology George Opsahl, Tom Dagostino* Mitsubushi Tam Cao* Motorola (Ron Werner) National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao*, John Goldie*, Ikchang Song* NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher*, Harvey Stiegler*, Vincent Chang* Thomson-CSF/SCTF (Jean LeBrun) Viewlogic Jon Powell*, Chris Rokusek* VeriBest Ian Dodd* VLSI Technology D.C. Sessions* Zuken-Redac (John Berrie) OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1998: Ansoft Eric Bogatin* Apple Fred Floresca*, Danny Itani* Apteq Design Systems Dan FitzPatrick* Compaq Shariq Rahman* EIA Patti Rusher* EMC Fawn Engelmann* Fairchild Semiconductor Peter LaFlamme* NESA Edward Sayre*, Kathy Breda* North Carolina State U. (Michael Steer) Philips Semiconductor Todd Andersen* Seagate Vanessa Howard* Symmetry Andy Hughes* Tektronix Nassrin Ghahyasi* Ultratest International Chris O'Connor* Xilinx Susan Wu* In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode February 13, 1998 (916) 356-9200 5-15348 8377869 Thurday, February 26, 1998 EUROPEAN IBIS SUMMIT - NO BRIDGE All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM Syed Huq opened the meeting. Syed asked the officers Syed, Bob Ross, Jon Powell, and Stephen Peters to introduce themselves. Then all participants introduced themselves and company affiliation. Bob surveyed the attendance and found good representation among users (of models and tools), EDA providers and Semiconductor Vendors. The recorded attendance was 49. Bob also thanked National Semiconductor for their exceptional show of support of the EIA IBIS Open Forum for hosting the meeting and to Syed Huq for making the arrangements for the meeting and handling the logistics of scheduling the presentations. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Patti Rusher handed out invoices for 1998 EIA IBIS Open Forum membership to representatives of member companies in attendance. The rest will be mailed directly. Bob Ross reported that as a result of an error, Zuken-Redac should have been listed as a member company in 1997 and is now listed for 1998. (The participation lists above are now reset to represent 1998 membership and participation.) There should be some revisions as some recent company acquisitions and mergers are finalized. PROGRAM The program was rearranged to accommodate several presenters and to offer a better flow. The notes below represent the program in the order of presentation rather than in the original Agenda. Copies of the electronic presentations will be stored on eda.org, so the notes below will just be brief comments of some main points and related discussions that were captured. STATUS OF EIAJ I/O MODEL STANDARD - Norio Matsui, Applied Simulation Technology Bob Ross introduced this presentation indicating that the Chair., Hideki Fukuda, from Hitachi and Chair. of the subgroup could not attend. He had given a presentation to a small group in April, 1998, so Norio Matsui is giving the report on the I/O Buffer Interface for ICs activity. Norio stated that Version 1.0 was completed in January, 1998, and an English translation is under preparation. Like IBIS, the specification uses table data for transistor descriptions rather than the process parameters. Stimulus expressions for buffers were added. The specification describes I/O buffers and package models on a more detailed level than IBIS and is used for signal integrity, power integrity and in the future, EMI. Norio showed examples of ground bounce simulation, reflections, and crosstalk. Applied Simulation Technology processes table spice models and simulation times are as fast as IBIS simulations. In addition, Avent! is reportedly going to re-instate a ibis2spice converter. Future activities involve extensions for EMI, a BGA (Power/Ground Plane) model, and development of tools. Bob commented at the end that Fukuda-san had indicated that the English translations of Version 1.0 was planned by February 1998, and that a Web site was also planned by March 1998 to give information and background. REPORT ON IBIS USER'S FORUM - Ed Sayre, Northeast Systems Associates (NESA) Ed summarized the three meetings held so far on September 18, 1997 (hosted by NESA), December 4, 1997 at Cadence, and January 18, 1998 at Stratus. Two sub-committees were formed. Greg Edlund chairs a group on Accuracy and Validation, and Paul Galloway on Software Aspects of IBIS. Greg and Bob Haller have presented their thoughts on IBIS model accuracy, and Paul has reported that users are interested in an IBIS to Spice translation. The next meeting is scheduled on Thursday, February 12, 1998 at EMC. The participants will report back on the IBIS Summit meeting and the sub- committees will report on progress. Ed emphasized that there is strong participation from the East Coast IBIS user community, but will accept help from all over. Ed also stressed that the communications industry (operating in the GHz region and with fiber optics) is under-represented in IBIS. The IBIS East group will coordinate its activities with the IBIS Open Forum. HYPERLYNX IBIS DEVELOPERS KIT - Kellee Chrisafulli, HyperLynx Kellee introduced the HyperLynx IBIS Developers Tool Kit to assist in producing better IBIS models and verifying them. It will be available for free to semiconductor vendors who will provide the models to the public for free. It will also be available to others for $4,000. The Kit consists of the (free) Visual IBIS Editor with built in ibischk2+ rules checking, a simulator to run IBIS models, pre-built schematics with test loads, a schematic editor to create any type of load circuit, and over 800 IBIS models to be used as examples. Plans for future releases include an "IBIS Model Wizard" to help you generate models by asking questions about output resistance, rise and fall times, etc., and a similar "Package Model Wizard" to provide first cut package information. Kellee expects the product to be available by the end of February, 1998. DEVELOPING AN IBIS ACCURACY SPECIFICATION - Greg Edlund, Digital Equipment Greg indicated that the focus has shifted to accuracy, defined as agreement between model prediction and lab measurements. He chairs a sub- committee which intends to produce an accuracy specification by January, 1999 and is looking for a semiconductor manufacturer to serve as a beta site. The specification would cover relevant model parameters, minimum set of test loads, measurement methodology, a comparison metric and a characterization report. Greg defined three levels of model accuracy and the comparison metric for AAPE: average absolute percent error. The accuracy statistics would be added to the IBIS model header. As part of his presentation, Greg passed around a board they are using as a test fixture, along with the schematic. This presentation generated a general discussion on accuracy and a number of questions. D.C Sessions commented that to do correlation on EVERY model in an I/O cell library would be difficult. Instead, the semi house must create a process that works for a few, then apply the process to get confidence. There was some discussion on whether this process should be documented as part of the spec. V-T CURVE MODELING - C. Kumar, Cadence Kumar argued that IBIS Models as currently specified with V/T tables can be processed by different algorithms, all satisfying the "golden data". He argues that specifying an IBIS model with one I/T curve and one V/T table for 50 ohms terminated to Vcc/2 gives the internal staged switching information to produce unambiguous and accurate results. Kumar showed an example of a staged switch and also showed the assumed equations. Upon questioning, Kumar stated that this specification method would work best for Spice models and would be more difficult for physical devices. Jon Powell argued that V/T curve modeling was still valid, but that the proper loads had to be selected -- "the selection of tests loads is not arbitrary". COMPARING THE PERFORMANCE AND ACCURACY OF SPICE AND IBIS MODELS IN HIGH FREQUENCY SIMULATION - Arpad Muranyi, Intel Arpad presented some preliminary results addressing the question of whether there is a frequency limit for using IBIS models. He compared HSPICE models and behavioral Spice models for flight time simulation comparisons. First he established that his comparison was limited by time step resolution limitations. Some suggested that he could have controlled this. Then he showed very good correlation between the simulations under a resistor, capacitor and set of transmission line loads. He concludes that while v2.1 IBIS models are more accurate than v1.1 models, both are accurate to within a few pS, and IBIS models are applicable for higher frequency simulations. A COMPARISON AND CORRELATION OF RESULTS FOR PHILIPS BICMOS ALVT16244 USING HSPICE AND PSTAR (INTERNAL) VERSUS SIMULATED AND MEASURED IBIS MODELS - Todd Andersen, Philips Todd presented a complete report of a comparison study based on measurement, simulation using HyperLynx LineSim, Philips Pstar, and HSPICE. He showed the non-monotonic behavior of the input bus hold circuit. In general, the comparison of IV data and time simulations were excellent. CORRELATING A SIMULATED MODELS (SPICE2IBIS) TO LAB MEASUREMENTS - Patrick Riffault, Cadence Patrick presented a methodology for doing a comparison. An internal test board was used which could be populated with different technologies. The process involves correlating the actual IBIS model with physical model measurements to adjust the RAMP times and I/V data. When correlated, the measured results are then compared with simulation results. Patrick's results did show some differences, but there was only a 6% (max) error between the predicted and measured overshoot/undershoot . As a general design process, Patrick recommends using the min and max tables, since the IBIS model adjustment is a time consuming process requiring proper equipment. DATA REQUIREMENTS TO BUILD A COMPLETE IBIS MODEL - CADENCE'S MODEL DEVELOPMENT PROCESSES - Paul Galloway, Cadence Paul presented a process for generating IBIS models from Spice models. The process involves using s2ibis and then comparing the simulations using SigNoise and Spice. He showed that source data comes from Spice models, data sheets, measurements and legacy models. All sources can be used, and he showed a table where keyword parameters are best obtained. As part of the final QA process, he does syntax checking with ibischk, visual inspection and simulation to examine the rising and falling waveforms. Paul showed some plots of results which showed excellent correlation. INSPECTING IBIS MODELS - Bob Ross, Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics Bob indicated that as a goal, IBIS models from commercial sources and semiconductor vendors should be plug-in compatible across simulators. This is a more stringent requirement than is satisfied with existing Spice models which have no standard syntax for I/O buffer models, may be different for different Spices, and require user Spice knowledge and user re-configuration for the application. The presentation was concerned with IBIS syntax and construction issues rather than on accuracy issues. Similar to Paul Galloway's presentation, Bob presented four areas that he checks: ibischk2+ checking (after converting version 1.1 models to [IBIS Ver] 2.1, plotting (to view all the tables), and simulations (for amplitude and rise and fall time reality, and inspection of the contents. Bob showed some expected plots for CMOS, TTL, ECL and BiCMOS technologies. Some problems revealed by the inspection process may also be revealed by some of the other steps. Among the items to be observed or tested are required Vinh and Vinl thresholds and values, endpoints of Waveform tables, Timing test load information and intersection, and monotonic data. Typical voltage and current points at 0 A and 0 V crossings can be inspected for typical technologies. Clean time responses should exist for the waveform tables. Bob outlined areas of inspection and listed several points under each. The areas included correctness, minimal completeness, correct numerical values, accuracy of information, and relationship with CAE algorithms. Bob also showed some older s2ibis defects which you would look for based on information on which s2ibis was used. Basically, look for both the expected and unexpected. Many models can be fixed or completed, but Plug-in compatibility should be an objective for commercial quality IBIS models. OTHER BUSINESS COMMERCIAL MODELS AND SERVICES At the suggestion of Jon Powell, Bob Ross asked for individuals who have commercial offerings to describe briefly what services, products or models they are offering. John Powell described that he is managing the Viewlogic Consulting Services. The service will provide IBIS models to semiconductor vendors and customers based on HSPICE or measurement. Andy Hughes of Symmetry used to be an IBIS Model provider prior to being acquired by Analogy. Symmetry still supports existing customers. Tom Dagostino of Zeelan Technology (A Mentor Graphics business) has a library of over 10,000 IBIS Components for sale that are measurement based. Zeelan also will provide libraries in Quad and Cadence formats directly. Zeelan also provides model development services for users and semiconductor vendors. Paul Galloway introduced the Cadence IBIS Modeling Service for developing IBIS Models from Spice models for semiconductor vendors and customers. The HyperLynx tool was discussed in the main presentation. About 800 IBIS Models are available to customers. Chris O'Connor discussed the UltraTest International programmable curve tracer which can be configured to automatically extract the IBIS Model I/V tables for any set of pins. Scott Jacobson mentioned that Incases provides IBIS models through its consulting services to customers. Bob noted that other commercial IBIS model providers not mentioned above also exist. MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE Bob Ross mentioned that an EDA tool vendor IBIS Model Review committee has been formed and coordinated by Matthew Flora. These individuals will be available to review models that are submitted to them from semiconductor vendors, commercial vendors, or users, and will provide feedback to the originator of the model regarding correctness and how the models performed in their simulators. In that way the model developers will learn about the common set of features that need to be supported in addition to learn about possible problems in the models common to all. The members consist of the following people: Matthew Flora, HyperLynx Bob Ross, Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics Olaf Rethmeier, Incases Chris Rokusek, Viewlogic Bob asked for and got additional members: Paul Galloway, Cadence Ian Dodd, VeriBest Jon Powell, Viewlogic IBISCHK2.1.15 STATUS Bob Ross indicated the ibischk2+ Version 2.1.15 is waiting a fix for BUG21 and creation of executables before being posted. Matthew Flora has sent the revised code with BUG20 fixed to Chris Rokusek, and Chris needs to fix BUG21 and send the source code to Atul Agarwal and Bob and Matthew. Chris will also send the executables to Bob to be put on eda.org. IBISCHK3 STATUS Bob Ross indicated that 10 companies have committed to the development project. Bob will check whether a few more companies will join. He expects to decide on issuing invoices at the February 13, 1998 meeting based on commitments at that date. So far Bob has commitments or payment from the following companies: Applied Simulation Technology Cadence Digital Equipment HyperLynx Incases Intel Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics Mitsubishi Semiconductor National Semiconductor Viewlogic Bob reported that Atul Agarwal has completed 5 of the eight items. He expects to have a Beta Version of the Source Code available by the beginning of March, 1998. Bob will distribute it to the companies who have funded the development. Atul is awaiting ibischk2 Version 2.1.15 as the new baseline. S2IBIS2/3 Bob Ross stated that the spice2ibis project could be turned over to industry to create a commercial product. Currently, a student, R. Sanjeev, also known as Presi is working on improvements. VERSION 3.1 OBJECTIVE Bob Ross indicated that it would be nice to close out all of the issues and vote for ratification of Version 3.1 at the June IBIS Summit meeting at the Design Automation Convention. The ibischk3 development project is part of the process to check and stabilize Version 3.1. EUROPEAN IBIS SUMMIT Bob Ross showed the tentative agenda consisting of 10 presentations to date. He indicated good sign up so far, but will send out another notice for sign up and additional presentations. The European IBIS Summit is being co-sponsored by Cadence, High Design Technology, and Mentor Graphics and will be held on Thursday, February 26, 1998 in Paris, France. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned after once again thanking Syed Huq and National Semiconductor for taking care of all of the arrangement. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting is on Friday, February 13, 1998, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentorg.com Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix BU of Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785 huq@rockie.nsc.com Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595 2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052 SECRETARY: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-56 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design) 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for use at trade shows. ============================================================================== --=====================_886403533==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" --=====================_886403533==_-- From owner-ibis Tue Feb 3 15:08:40 1998 Received: from newsgw.mentorg.com (newsgw.mentorg.com [137.202.128.5]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA11234; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:08:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from emicx.wv.mentorg.com by newsgw.mentorg.com (8.6.8.1/CF5.22R) id PAA06822; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:05:46 -0800 Received: from bob by emicx.wv.mentorg.com (8.7.5/CF5.38R) id PAA03612; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:05:43 -0800 (PST) From: bobr@emicx.mentorg.com (Bob Ross) Received: by bob (4.1/CF5.23L) id AA07929; Tue, 3 Feb 98 15:05:53 PST Date: Tue, 3 Feb 98 15:05:53 PST Message-Id: <9802032305.AA07929@bob> To: atulapt@giascl01.vsnl.net.in, ibischk-bug@eda.org Subject: Re: Series enhancement queries Cc: ibis@eda.org Atul: My response is below and also copied to the IBIS reflector for information. Best Regards, Bob > From: "APT SOFTWARE AVENUES PVT.LTD" > Reply-To: "APT SOFTWARE AVENUES PVT.LTD" > To: Bob Ross > Subject: Re: Series enhancement queries > Hello Bob, > With respect to your reply below, I want to make sure about the following > which was my original intent of asking you the question. > Any keyword, which is allowable for Series_MOSFET, can be specified twice, > both under [On] and [Off], if the model developer wants that keyword to be > meaningful in both the on and off states. For example, the [Voltage Range] > keyword can be specified twice if the model developer wants different > voltage ranges for on and off states. Similary for [Temperature Range] > and all other keywords which are allowable. > The [Voltage Range] or any power reference voltage and [Temperature Range] keywords should appear only once and above the [On] and [Off] keywords. > > > b) For the keywords above which are allowable for Series_switch, do they > > > need to be specified twice, both under [On] and [Off] keywords if a user > > > wants them to be meaningful both under the on and off states ? > > > > Both [On] and [Off] should be required. The both must be filled with > > a meaningful entry (see below). The keywords used under [On] could be > > different than used under [Off]. For example the series switch sample > > under eda.org/pup/ibis/samples/ver3.0/cbt.ibs uses [Series MOSFET] > > for the [On] model and [R Series] for a high impedance [Off] model. > > > > From owner-ibis Tue Feb 3 15:23:37 1998 Received: from newsgw.mentorg.com (newsgw.mentorg.com [137.202.128.5]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA11428; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:23:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from emicx.wv.mentorg.com by newsgw.mentorg.com (8.6.8.1/CF5.22R) id PAA07939; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:20:50 -0800 Received: from bob by emicx.wv.mentorg.com (8.7.5/CF5.38R) id PAA03756; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:20:46 -0800 (PST) From: bobr@emicx.mentorg.com (Bob Ross) Received: by bob (4.1/CF5.23L) id AA07932; Tue, 3 Feb 98 15:20:57 PST Date: Tue, 3 Feb 98 15:20:57 PST Message-Id: <9802032320.AA07932@bob> To: atulapt@giascl01.vsnl.net.in, ibischk-bug@eda.org Subject: Re: Model Selector Cc: ibis@eda.org Atul: You have a valid point. I change my position. [Model Selector] should exist at the file scope to be consistent with the fact that [Model]s exist at the file scope. If we had restricted the [Model Selector] to be constrained to a [Component] scope, then we could have allowed two [Model Selector]s with the same name to exist under different [Component]s. This could be very confusing. So like [Model]s, only unique names for [Model Selector] can exist in a .ibs file. Thank you for pushing back on this point. This is being copied to the IBIS reflector for information. Best Regards, Bob > Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:06:33 +0000 (GMT) > From: "APT SOFTWARE AVENUES PVT.LTD" > To: Bob Ross > Subject: Model Selector > Hello Bob > Just to argue further, every model selector has a unique > name associated with it. So there is nothing to prevent multiple > model selectors from being defined at the file scope. If we make > model selectors component scope, then we preclude the possibility > of sharing the same model selector among multiple components( as > we do with models). > I must confess that my vehement arguments for making the model > selector file scope are biased by the fact that I have already > implemented them such, but it would not be very difficult > to make them component scope should you remain unconvinced :-) > Regards > atul > > > > > 1) In the IBIS Tree diagram for Version 3.0 (which you had > > > given me), the [Model Selector] keyword is indicated within > > > the [Component] scope. Now, a model selector is nothing > > > but a "stand-in" for a model and models are defined at file > > > scope. By this logic, shouldn't a [Model Selector] be at the > > > file scope also ? > > > > In my opinion the scope of [Model Selector] should remain under > > [Component], just as shown in the Tree diagram. This allows a > > different [Component] in the same file which will access similar > > models to have a different default model and different configurations. > > For example, a different component may not offer a reduced set of > > selections since one of the pins controling the selection may be NC. > > From owner-ibis Thu Feb 5 16:06:43 1998 Received: from natsemi-bh.nsc.com (natsemi-bh.nsc.com [204.163.202.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA03688 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 16:06:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id QAA14825 for ; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 16:04:10 -0800 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi-bh.nsc.com via smap (3.2) id xma014757; Thu, 5 Feb 98 16:04:02 -0800 Received: from lightning.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA22240 for ibis@vhdl.org; Thu, 5 Feb 98 16:04:01 -0800 Received: from kural by rockie.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29196; Thu, 5 Feb 98 16:06:15 PST Date: Thu, 5 Feb 98 16:06:15 PST From: huq@rockie.nsc.com (Syed Huq) Message-Id: <9802060006.AA29196@rockie.nsc.com> To: ibis@vhdl.org Subject: IBIS Jan98 Summit softcopy on vhdl.org Hi, The softcopies of the IBIS summit98 that are available have been placed on the anonymous ftp site at vhdl.org for downloading under the following sub-dir /pub/ibis/summits/jan98 Below is the content of the '00readme.txt' file that explains the files available for download. 00readme.txt: IBIS Summit98 - Jan26th 1998 Santa Clara, CA ------------------------------ The 'zip' files are WinZip'ed using ver6.2. Most of the papers are Powerpoint presentations on Win95 Cadence.zip : "Correlating a Simulated Model (Spice2IBIS) to Lab Measurements" - Patrick Riffault (Cadence) (Powerpoint presentation with notes) digital.zip : "Developing an IBIS Model Quality Specification" Greg Edlund (Digital) (Powerpoint presentation) hyperlynx.zip:"A New IBIS Development Tool Kit" Kellee Crisafulli (Hyperlynx) (Powerpoint presentation) icxjan98.zip: "Inspecting IBIS Models" Bob Ross (Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics) (Powerpoint presentation) nesa.ppt: "The IBIS User's Group Objective and Program" Ed Sayre (NESA) (Powerpoint presentation) cpkibis98.tar "Probelms in V-T Curve Modeling and Simulation" C. Kumar (Cadence) (Unix tar file and will explode into html and gif format files of each slides) m012698.txt Meeting minutes of the Jan26th Summit in text format. Regards, Syed Vice-Chair ANSI/EIA-656 (IBIS) National Semiconductor Corp. From owner-ibis Fri Feb 6 11:48:03 1998 Received: from newsgw.mentorg.com (newsgw.mentorg.com [137.202.128.5]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA24541 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 11:48:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from emicx.wv.mentorg.com by newsgw.mentorg.com (8.6.8.1/CF5.22R) id LAA06806; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 11:45:24 -0800 Received: from bob by emicx.wv.mentorg.com (8.7.5/CF5.38R) id LAA23632; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 11:45:22 -0800 (PST) From: bobr@emicx.mentorg.com (Bob Ross) Received: by bob (4.1/CF5.23L) id AA11216; Fri, 6 Feb 98 11:45:32 PST Date: Fri, 6 Feb 98 11:45:32 PST Message-Id: <9802061945.AA11216@bob> To: ibis@eda.org Subject: IBIS MEETING FEBRUARY 13, 1998 IBIS Open Forum Meeting Agenda for 2/13/98 Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode (916) 356-9200 5-15348 8377869 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the Reservation Number and Passcode. 8:00 Check-In, Intros, Announcements Ross - Intros of New IBIS Participants, Meeting Quorum Ross - Membership Update and Treasurers Report Rusher - Review of Previous Meeting's Minutes (and ARs) Peters - Miscellany/Announcements All - Press & Web Page Updates Huq, All - New Models Available, Library Update Powell, All - Opens for New Issues All 8:25 Administrative and Project Discussions New Year General Administrative Comments Ross International Progress Rusher/Ross - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - EIAJ III (I/O Interface Model for ICs) - IBIS and EMC Simulation IBIS East Meeting Ross DesignCon98 IBIS Summit Meeting Review Huq DesignCon98 Review Ross DATE98 (Design Automation and Test in Europe - Ross formerly EuroDAC) - IBIS Summit - PCB Symposium s2ibis for NT Status Dodd/Wiens Editing Committee Ross/Peters BIRD44 - Interpretation of Min/Max/Weak/Strong Data Ross Vote? IBISCHK2+ (Ver 2.115) PROGRESS Flora/Rokusek BUG22 - Empty [Rising Waveform] or Empty Ross [Falling Waveform] Causes Crash Version 3.1 Parser Development Ross/Peters - Funding - Test Matrix - Samples Cookbook Status Peters - Examples New Administrative Issues All 9:15 Technical Discussion BIRD42.3 - Modeling Current Waveforms Kumar/Ross BIRD45.1 - Dynamic Clamps Orhanovic/Muranyi BIRD46 - Relaxation of Some IBIS Model File Name Flora Restrictions New Technical Issues All 9:50 Wrap Up and Next Meetings Plans Ross 9:55 Sign Off From owner-ibis Mon Feb 16 18:18:19 1998 Received: from exchange3.via.com.tw (exchange3.via.com.tw [203.70.217.205]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id SAA13136 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:18:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by exchange3.via.com.tw with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id <1S8XCMGW>; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:21:37 +0800 Message-ID: <91A98A376577D1118ADF0000B441F5D6011C47@exchange3.via.com.tw> From: Weber Chuang To: ibis@eda.org Subject: Dual curve characteristic for input pad Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:21:36 +0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear IBISers,

   I am currently = involved in the design of a I/O pad and building IBIS for it, but I am = facing some troubles, my I/O pad has dual I/V curves while in input = mode, that is, the I/V curves for rising input and falling input  = are different. IBIS seems to not supporting this kind of design, and = s2ibis2 will not generate correct model for this. Is there any = workaround? Any comment is welcome.


Best Regards

Weber Chuang(ChingFu Chuang)
SI Engineer, System Team.
VIA Technologies, Inc.
Taipei, Taiwan, ROC


From owner-ibis Mon Feb 16 18:55:09 1998 Received: from exchange3.via.com.tw (exchange3.via.com.tw [203.70.217.205]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id SAA13974 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:55:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by exchange3.via.com.tw with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:58:31 +0800 Message-ID: <91A98A376577D1118ADF0000B441F5D6011C49@exchange3.via.com.tw> From: Weber Chuang To: "'ibis@eda.org'" Subject: dual curve issue for input pad Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:58:29 +0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Dear IBISers, I resend this mail because the previous one seem to have some problems. I am currently involved in the design of a I/O pad and building IBIS for it, but I am facing some troubles, my I/O pad has dual I/V curves while in input mode, that is, the I/V curves for rising input and falling input are different. IBIS seems to not supporting this kind of design, and s2ibis2 will not generate correct model for this. Is there any workaround? Any comment is welcome. Best Regards Weber Chuang(ChingFu Chuang) SI Engineer, System Team. VIA Technologies, Inc. Taipei, Taiwan, ROC From owner-ibis Wed Feb 18 08:44:53 1998 Received: from mail12.digital.com (mail12.digital.com [192.208.46.20]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA21680 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:44:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from sbuamazko2ae.zko.dec.com (sbuamazko2ae.zko.dec.com [16.29.160.92]) by mail12.digital.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/WV1.0c) with ESMTP id LAA01466 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:42:13 -0500 (EST) Received: by sbuamazko2ae.zko.dec.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:42:20 -0500 Message-ID: <890ED1999E9CD01197A10000F84AA1F7A2E954@sbuamapko3cc.eng.pko.dec.com> From: Andrew Ingraham To: "'ibis@eda.org'" , "'Weber Chuang'" Subject: RE: dual curve issue for input pad Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:41:51 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Weber Chuang wrote: > I am currently involved in the design of a I/O pad and building IBIS > for it, but I am facing some troubles, my I/O > pad has dual I/V curves while in input mode, that is, the I/V curves for > rising input and falling input are > different. IBIS seems to not supporting this kind of design, and s2ibis2 > will not generate correct model for this. Is > there any workaround? Any comment is welcome. Are you talking about a hysteresis-like feedback characteristic, such as a bus-hold circuit? If so, IBIS doesn't do it. Both because it doesn't handle input I/V curves that change, and because bus-hold input curves are non-monotonic which can create problems for the simulator. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong or if version 3 changes this.) Regards, Andy Ingraham From owner-ibis Thu Feb 19 14:13:06 1998 Received: from newsgw.mentorg.com (newsgw.mentorg.com [192.94.38.66]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA22560; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:13:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from emicx.wv.mentorg.com by newsgw.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id OAA27005; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:09:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from bob by emicx.wv.mentorg.com (8.7.5/CF5.38R) id OAA15702; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:09:50 -0800 (PST) From: bobr@emicx.mentorg.com (Bob Ross) Received: by bob (4.1/CF5.23L) id AA21327; Thu, 19 Feb 98 14:10:08 PST Date: Thu, 19 Feb 98 14:10:08 PST Message-Id: <9802192210.AA21327@bob> To: ibis-users@eda.org, ibis@eda.org, si-list@silab.eng.sun.com Subject: AGENDA EUROPEAN IBIS SUMMIT 2/26/98 Cc: bobr@emicx.mentorg.com AGENDA EUROPEAN IBIS SUMMIT MEETING Concorde-Lafayette Hotel Paris, France February 26, 1998 8:30 REFRESHMENTS 9:00 Welcome, IBIS Activities Bob Ross, Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics, USA 9:25 IBIS Users Group Paul Galloway, Cadence, USA 9:45 Use of IBIS in Alcatel John Fitzpatrick, Alcatel, France 10:25 IBIS Model Development at National Semiconductor Corporation Syed Huq, National Semiconductor, USA 10:45 BREAK 11:00 IBIS Models, Spice vs. Measurement Tom Dagostino, Zeelan Technology/Mentor Graphics, USA 11:30 Required IBIS Enhancements Gerald Bannert, Siemens, Germany 12:00 Challenges in Using IBIS in High Frequency Applications Prakash Radhakrishnan, Intel, USA 12:30 LUNCH 13:30 IBIS Models and EMC Simulation Standardization Status Christian Marot, Siemens, France 14:00 Future Component Characterization for EMI Analysis Werner Rissiek, Incases, Germany 14:30 IBIS Models for EMC and High-Frequency Devices Razvan Ene, High Design Technology, Italy 15:15 BREAK 15:30 SI-Analysis with HSPICE Based on IBIS Behavioral Models Bernhard Unger, Siemens, Germany 16:00 Problems in V-T Curve Modeling and Simulation C. Kumar, Cadence, USA 16:30 BIRD42.3 Algorithm Considerations Bob Ross, Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics, USA 16:45 GROUP DISCUSSION Technical Comments IBIS Usage Comments Questions About the EIA IBIS Open Forum Forming a European IBIS Users Group 17:00 ADJOURN From owner-ibis Fri Feb 20 09:22:30 1998 Received: from ganymede.or.intel.com (ganymede.or.intel.com [134.134.248.3]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA11833 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:21:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ichips-jf.jf.intel.com (ichips-jf.jf.intel.com [134.134.50.200]) by ganymede.or.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14296 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:24:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from xtg801 (xtg801.intel.com [134.134.120.169]) by ichips-jf.jf.intel.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA09401 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:18:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ichips.intel.com by xtg801 (8.8.8/WW2.1) id JAA12085; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:18:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802201718.JAA12085@xtg801> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0delta 6/3/97 To: ibis@eda.org Subject: IBIS Open Forum Minutes 2/13 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:18:41 -0800 From: Stephen Peters DATE: 2/20/98 SUBJECT: 2/13/98 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 1998 PARTICIPANTS LIST: AMP (Martin Freedman) Applied Simulation Technology Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram* Cadence Design & UniCAD C. Kumar, Don Telian, Patrick Riffault, Craig Lewis, Greg Fitzgerald, Paul Galloway Cypress (Bruce Wenniger) Digital Equipment Corp. Jeff Chu*, Greg Edlund*, Bob Haller Hewlett Packard EEsof Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu Boise Paul Gregory High Design Technology (Razvan Ene) HyperLynx Kellee Crisafulli, Matthew Flora* Incases Olaf Rethmeier, Scott Jacobson Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern Columbia, SC (formerly NCR) Dave Moxley* Mentor Graphics Mark Noneman Interconnectix Bob Ross* Zeelan Technology George Opsahl, Tom Dagostino Mitsubishi Tam Cao Motorola (Ron Werner) National Semiconductor Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, John Goldie, Ikchang Song NEC (Hiroshi Matsumoto) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Harvey Stiegler, Vincent Chang Thomson-CSF/SCTF (Jean LeBrun) Viewlogic Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek* VeriBest Ian Dodd VLSI Technology D.C. Sessions Zuken-Redac (John Berrie) OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1998: Ansoft Eric Bogatin Apple Fred Floresca, Danny Itani Apteq Design Systems Dan FitzPatrick Compaq Shariq Rahma EIA Patti Rusher EMC Fawn Engelmann Fairchild Semiconductor Peter LaFlamme NESA Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda North Carolina State U. (Michael Steer) Philips Semiconductor Todd Andersen* Seagate Vanessa Howard Symmetry Andy Hughes Tektronix Nassrin Ghahyasi Ultratest International Chris O'Connor Xilinx Susan Wu In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode February 26, 1998 EUROPEAN EIA IBIS SUMMIT - NO BRIDGE March 13, 1998 (916) 356-9200 5-23353 2913463 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM No new participants. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT No report. Bob Ross mentioned that Patti Rusher had issued invoices to attendees at the EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting on January 26, 1998 REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S Bob Ross has done minor editorial spelling correction on some previous minutes. The Mitsubishi name is corrected in the January 26, 1998 Minutes. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Bob Ross indicated that he still plans the Majordomo conversion when he has time. In the last few days there was intermittent ftp access to eda.org due to a hacker attack and security hole. This has been resolved. Matthew Flora announced that a new version of the IBIS Visual Editor will be made available as soon as the HyperLynx system administrator uploads it. It has minor corrections and an updated version of ibischk2+. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Syed Huq reported that the Digital logo and links are on the Poster page of the EIA IBIS Home Page. The Model Provider Link was removed since the list is not being maintained. Bob Ross reported that he will present "IBIS Modeling Tips and Advances" at the PCB Design Conference West in Santa Clara, March 23-26, 1998. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE None reported. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES Bob Ross on BUG23 - An Empty [Pullup], [Pulldown] with Waveform Table Crashes Stephen Peters on the Model Review Committee INTERNATIONAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Bob Ross reported that he has no new information on the status. - EIAJ III (I/O Interface Model for ICs) - Bob reported that the EIAJ subcommittee plans to have a web site in early March with access to Version 1.0 of the document, which is being translated into English. - IBIS and EMC Simulation - Bob reported that a meeting of national experts has been set up in Paris on Friday, February 27, 1998. Bob is the US representative. Other national representatives are invited from England, France, Germany, Denmark, and Italy. This meeting is conducted under IEC TC93/WG5. The French group will make a report at the European IBIS Summit on IBIS Models and EMC Simulation Standardization Status. IBIS EAST MEETING Greg Edlund reported on the IBIS User's Group meeting held Thursday, February 12, 1998 at EMC. The DesignCon EIA IBIS Summit Meeting was reviewed. Greg also mentioned that Paul Galloway has been giving brief tutorials on IBIS keywords. The IBIS East committee is working on establishing a Web Site for material they are collecting. One participant suggested that a one-day crash course on IBIS would be useful. Ed Sayre would be interested in setting up such a course and would have others contribute to it. Stephen Peters and others expressed interest in such a course. The next meeting is scheduled on Thursday, March 19, 1998 for 3 PM to 5 PM. DESIGNCON98 IBIS SUMMIT The EIA IBIS Summit Meeting was held on Monday, January 26, 1998 at the Santa Clara Convention Center and just before the DesignCon show. Syed Huq reported that many of the presentations at the EIA IBIS Summit have been uploaded on eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/jan98. The Summit was very successful with 49 people attending and with many good presentations. Bob Ross thanked Syed for handling the arrangements and National Semiconductor for sponsoring the meeting. DESIGNCON98 The DesignCon presentations on Tuesday, January 27, 1998 in the Signal Integrity track involved IBIS model issues. These were well attended. Syed reported that the panel on How Good are IBIS Models? turned out well. The moderator, Jim Lipmann of EDN Magazine, did not have to ask any questions, and the question/answer session continued even after Jim left. Bob noted that Greg Edlund and Bob Haller of Digital (along with Mentor Graphics for sponsoring the booth) got the best Demo Booth Award at the show. Bob also noted that Margery Conner of the DesignCon98 committee was very helpful in working with us and getting IBIS listed as a DesignCon98 sponsor. DATE98 (DESIGN AUTOMATION AND TEST IN EUROPE) IBIS SUMMIT The DATE98 Conference will be held Monday thru Thursday, February 23-26, 1998 in Paris France. Several IBIS and PCB Design related activities are scheduled. The DATE Conference itself is the continuation of EuroDAC (with EuroVHDL) and ED&TC (EDAC, ETC, and EuroASIC). More information is available at: http://www.date-conference.com - PCB Symposium - Wednesday, February 25, 1998 Bob Ross reported that seven EDA companies (Cadence, Incases, Mentor Graphics, VeriBest, Viewlogic, Xynetix, and Zuken-Redac) are co-sponsors of a vender-neutral (i.e., no product promotion), informative, all-day event. Bob outlined the currently planned program which is scheduled from 10:00 AM to 4:00 PM: 10:00: Opening Address, Lutz Treutler of the FED 10:15: Viewlogic, Guy DeBurgh 10:45: Mentor Graphics, Bob Ross 11:15: Xynetix, Andrew Jones 11:45: Incases, Torsten Maeser and Werner Rissiek 12:15: Buffet Luncheon 1:30: VeriBest, David Weins 2:00: Cadence, Paul Galloway 2:30: Zuken-Redac, Anthony Cutler 3:00: Round Table Discussion The Round Table Discussion will have representatives from several EDA companies and also former EIA IBIS Open Forum Chair. Will Hobbs. - European IBIS Summit - Thursday, February 26, 1998 Bob reported that about 41 people have signed up so far, and he is looking for about 45 to 50. The meeting is hosted by Cadence. High Design Technology, (HDT) and Mentor Graphics. There are about 14 possible presentations. Bob presented a tentative schedule, and the one shown below with updates after the meeting is still tentative. Some last minute confirmations are still needed. PRELIMINARY AGENDA EUROPEAN IBIS SUMMIT MEETING February 26, 1998 Paris, France 8:30 REFRESHMENTS 9:00 Welcome, IBIS Activities Bob Ross, Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics, USA 9:25 IBIS Users Group Paul Galloway, Cadence, USA 9:45 Use of IBIS in Alcatel John Fitzpatrick, Alcatel, France 10:25 IBIS Model Development at National Semiconductor Corporation Syed Huq, National Semiconductor, USA 10:45 BREAK 11:00 IBIS, Measurements vs Spice Tom Dagostino, Zeelan Technology/Mentor Graphics, USA 11:30 Required IBIS Enhancements Gerald Bannert, Siemens, Germany 12:00 Challenges in Using IBIS in High Frequency Applications Prakash Radhakrishnan, Intel, USA 12:30 LUNCH 13:30 IBIS Models and EMC Simulation Standardization Status Christian Marot, Siemens, France 14:00 IBIS and Radiation Analysis (Incases) Werner Rissiek, Incases, Germany 14:30 IBIS Models for EMC and High-Frequency Devices Razvan Ene, High Design Technology, Italy 15:15 BREAK 15:30 SI-Analysis with HSPICE Based on IBIS Behavioral Models Bernhard Unger, Siemens, Germany 16:00 Problems in V-T Curve Modeling and Simulation C. Kumar, Cadence, USA 16:30 BIRD42.3 Algorithm Considerations Bob Ross, Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics, USA 16:45 GROUP DISCUSSION Technical Comments IBIS Usage Comments Questions About the EIA IBIS Open Forum Forming a European IBIS Users Group 17:00 ADJOURN S2IBIS2 Bob Ross mentioned that the VeriBest AR for an NT version of s2ibis2 is dropped because VeriBest cannot commit someone to do this as originally planned. Bob asked Matthew Flora if he would check whether HyperLynx would be interested in the doing the conversion. Bob also mentioned that another person that may be willing to make public his implementation. EDITING COMMITTEE Bob Ross reported that he still plans to put an unofficial IBIS ver3_1b.ibs update in the /pub/ibis/wip directory of eda.org to correct some editorial errors and also to deal with the [End Electrical Description] and [End Board Description] nomenclature inconsistency and other issues reported by Atul Agarwal. The BNF AR remains. AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (and IBIS Version 3.0 ratification AR). BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA Bob Ross opened the discussion on BIRD44 which was submitted just prior to the June 1997 IBIS Summit meeting by Andy Ingraham. BIRD44 proposes changing the min and max column headings for certain keywords to slow/weak and fast/strong for IV tables and [Temperature Range], and also to slow and fast for [Ramp] and Waveform tables. This would apply only to the comment lines that are used for column headings and to any related discussion in the Specification. After a general discussion at the last teleconference meeting, Bob listed options for IBIS Version 3.1 implementation. These included (1) reject (do nothing), (2) add a note (which most did not favor), (3) adopt, (4) adopt with revision such as standardizing on just slow/weak and strong/fast for all of the revised headings to show correlation, and (5) adopt with a combined syntax such as min-slow/weak, max-fast/strong for maximum consistency. The group discussed and reviewed the options and favored pursuing (4). Bob also wanted BIRD44 to include the additional Version 3.0 keywords and sub- parameters that might be changed since BIRD44 was written before Version 3.0 ratification and discussed only Version 2.1 keywords and subparameters. The committee would need agreement on how the changes apply to all of the Version 3.0 keywords and subparameters before asking for a vote. Bob suggested that he ask the author, Andy Ingraham, to make the changes. AR - Bob Ross request Andy Ingraham to issue BIRD44.1 with the changes noted above. [Done] IBISCHK2+ (VER 2.115) PROGRESS Matthew Flora and Chris Rokusek reported that ibischk2+ Version 2.1.15 which incorporated BUG20 and BUG21 fixes was completed and its executables were put on eda.org/pub/ibis/ibischk2+. Matthew asked Bob Ross if the DOS32 executable was posted, and Bob confirmed that it was, but forgot to send out a notice. So the AR regarding posting ibischk2+ Version 2.1.15 was completed. BUG22 - Empty [Rising Waveform] of [Falling Waveform] Causes Crash BUG23 - An Empty [Pullup], [Pulldown] with Waveform Table Crashes BUG22 and BUG23 were discussed together. Atul Agarwal reported these crashes. Matthew Flora stated that BUG22 was similar to BUG10 and that the fix was easy. Similarly, Chris Rokusek knew how to fix BUG23. Bob Ross classified both these BUGs as Severe and Medium because they both relate to ibischk2+ crashes. Bob also noted that these BUGs have appeared in the ibischk2 Version 2.1.11 release, so they have been in the system for a long time. Such as set of fixes would go into ibischk2+ Version 2.1.16. Chris suggested that the executables for Version 2.1.16 be done in several months since the process of generating executable is time consuming. Also other new bugs may need to be corrected in this release. However, the solutions to the problems need to be communicated to Atul to be put into the ibischk3 code. So the action is for Matthew to communicate the solution to BUG22 to Atul, and Chris to communicate the solution to BUG23. Both will maintain an updated pending ibischk2+ Version 2.1.16, but will not issue executables at this time. AR - Matthew Flora and Chris Rokusek communicate the fixes to Atul Agarwal for BUG22 and BUG23. [Done] VERSION 3.1 PARSER DEVELOPMENT Bob Ross got commitments from Hewlett-Packard EEsof and VeriBest to join the ibischk3 funding activity. With 12 companies that makes the per company price $2084. The committee by unanimous vote approved issuing $2084 invoices against the purchase orders. Syed Huq suggested that the two companies which already issued checks at $2500 be handled on an individual basis - such as credit the excess against future expenses. Bob would also approve issuing a refund, if requested. Bob listed the twelve companies which are joining the funding effort: Applied Simulation Technology Cadence Digital Equipment Hewlett-Packard EEsof HyperLynx Incases Intel Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics Mitsubishi Semiconductor National Semiconductor Viewlogic VeriBest Bob had no further status on the ibischk3 development and still expects the first release in early March. Bob still expects to incorporate the editorial corrections based on ibischk-bug@eda.org reflector activity concerning ambiguities. One fix is to change [End Board Description] to [End Electrical Description]. This correction would be put in the unofficial ver3_1b.ibs document. COOKBOOK No report, all the ARs are carried forward. AR - The following people have volunteered to supply examples Steve Kaufer/Hyperlynx -- Example 1 (Version 1.1 basic model) Arpad Muranyi - Example 2 Stephen Peters - Example 3 AR - Syed Huq. Review and expand (if necessary) Section 3.3. on "Obtaining I/V and Switching Information via Lab Measurement". IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION This discussion occurred after the BIRD42.3 discussion but is listed here as an Administrative topic. Bob Ross reviewed that the committee was formed at the January 9, 1998 meeting. Its function was to provide IBIS model developers feedback from EDA tool. The goal was to communicate to the IBIS developers how the model functioned and what are some of the critical practices and preferred options. One original option was for the IBIS committee to create a one day IBIS model development course. However, the committee members could not commit the time to do such a project. So the original committee with four members was formed at the meeting, and three more were added at the January 26, 1998 meeting. The complete committee along with their e-mail addresses are listed below: Matthew Flora, HyperLynx mbflora@hyperlynx.com Bob Ross, Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics bob_ross@mentorg.com Olaf Rethmeier, Incases orethmeier@pad.incases.com Chris Rokusek, Viewlogic crokusek@qdt.com Paul Galloway, Cadence pgjr@cadence.com Ian Dodd, VeriBest idodd@veribest.com Jon Powell, Viewlogic jonp@qdt.com Bob asked how the committee should proceed. Chris Rokusek suggested some method of central distribution such as a Web site where an IBIS model developer could issue a model and it would automatically be distributed to the committee. Matthew Flora volunteered to be the focal point for such distribution. At this time he would distribute IBIS models to the other members. If the company required individual company agreements, such as NDA documents or Intel CITR documents, then this requirement would be distributed by Matthew. This mechanism complied with Chris' intent. So Matthew is the focal point for providing IBIS model review. The reviewers would provide feedback directly to the model provider. The model provider might then learn of important features needed by EDA tools which use IBIS models. Syed Huq questioned how long the feedback would take, and Bob stated that on a time available basis he expected the feedback to take several days or more. BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS Bob Ross indicated that BIRD42.3 will be discussed in presentations by C. Kumar and by Bob at the European IBIS Summit. Bob indicated that there are two fundamental reasons given for BIRD42.3: Data for another IBIS processing algorithm and data for correction currents. BIRD45 - DYNAMIC CLAMPS Arpad Muranyi reported that he still needs to investigate incorporating the dynamic clamp tables into the [Driver Selection] mechanism. He still needs to work with Neven Orhanovic on this issue. BIRD46 - RELAXATION OF SOME IBIS FILE NAME RESTRICTIONS Matthew Flora continued the BIRD46 discussion that was started at the January 9, 1998 meeting. BIRD46 allows the total .ibs to be expanded to 64 characters. It is currently limited by the original DOS convention of 8.3. So the could contain 60 characters. A concern was raised that the DOS limitation might still exist in Windows NT Version 3.5.1 but subsequent e-mail argued that this limitation did not exist. Bob Ross had stated for consistency that a change made for the .ibs files should also apply to the .pkg and .ebd files in IBIS Version 3.0. Todd Andersen asked where .pkg and its limit was documented. Bob found some references in the IBIS Version 3.0 document. The other formats refer to complying to the .ibs or .pkg or .ebd file naming conventions. Rule 3 of the General Syntax Rules and Guidelines Section states that the filename must not exceed 8 characters in order to conform with DOS rules. Arpad Murany asked if the 64 character extension would cause the [Filename] keyword to exceed the 80 character line limit. Bob was concerned that the [Reference Designator Map] keyword has three columns consisting of the reference designator, the file name and component name. Since the component name can have 20 characters, Bob suggested that be limited to 20 characters. This would give naming flexibility without encouraging excessively long names. Greg Edlund asked if the underline character "_", character can be used in the name, and Matthew responded that it was already allowed. The general action item is for Matthew Flora to take this discussion into account and issue BIRD46.1. It is possible that BIRD46.1 will be up for a vote at the next meeting. AR - Matthew Flora issue BIRD44.1 to include references to the .pkg file and .ebd file and to change the limitation from 64 total characters to a limit of 20 characters. NEXT MEETING: The next meeting is the European EIA IBIS Summit in Paris, France on Monday, February 26, 1998. No teleconference connection is planned. The next teleconference meeting is on Friday, March 13, 1998, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M. BIRD46.1 may be scheduled for a vote. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentorg.com Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix BU of Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785 huq@rockie.nsc.com Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595 2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052 SECRETARY: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-56 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961 LIBRARIAN: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 jonp@qdt.com Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design) 1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell (jonp@qdt.com) for use at trade shows. ============================================================================== From owner-ibis Mon Feb 23 08:36:29 1998 Received: from calliope1.fm.intel.com ([132.233.247.10]) by server.vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA20135 for ; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:36:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from fmmail.fm.intel.com (fmmail.fm.intel.com [198.175.75.69]) by calliope1.fm.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA08885; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:32:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ccmgate@localhost) by fmmail.fm.intel.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id IAA17212; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:28:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by ccm.fm.intel.com (ccmgate 3.2 #2) Mon, 23 Feb 98 08:28:34 PST Date: Mon, 23 Feb 98 08:26:00 PST From: Arpad Muranyi Message-ID: To: ibis@eda.org, WeberChuang@via.com.tw Subject: Re[2]: dual curve issue for input pad Text item: Weber, It is true that we do not have something like that in IBIS, but I am currently working on BIRD 45 in which we are addressing this kind of needs. Could you please give me a beter description of these I-V curves so I could consider these when I write the BIRD? Thanks, Arpad Muranyi ============================================================================== Weber Chuang wrote: > I am currently involved in the design of a I/O pad and building IBIS > for it, but I am facing some troubles, my I/O > pad has dual I/V curves while in input mode, that is, the I/V curves for > rising input and falling input are > different. IBIS seems to not supporting this kind of design, and s2ibis2 > will not generate correct model for this. Is > there any workaround? Any comment is welcome. Are you talking about a hysteresis-like feedback characteristic, such as a bus-hold circuit? If so, IBIS doesn't do it. Both because it doesn't handle input I/V curves that change, and because bus-hold input curves are non-monotonic which can create problems for the simulator. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong or if version 3 changes this.) Regards, Andy Ingraham Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:41:51 -0500 Subject: RE: dual curve issue for input pad To: "'ibis@eda.org'" , "'Weber Chuang'" From: Andrew Ingraham Message-ID: <890ED1999E9CD01197A10000F84AA1F7A2E954@sbuamapko3cc.eng.pko.dec.com > Received: by sbuamazko2ae.zko.dec.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:42:20 -0500 Received: from sbuamazko2ae.zko.dec.com (sbuamazko2ae.zko.dec.com [16.29.160.92] ) by mail12.digital.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/WV1.0c) with ESMTP id LAA01466 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:42:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail12.digital.com (mail12.digital.com [192.208.46.20]) by server .vhdl.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA21680 for ; Wed, 18 Feb 1 998 08:44:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from server.vhdl.org (server.vhdl.org [198.31.14.3]) by hebe.or.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16603; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:09:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from hebe.or.intel.com by relay.hf.intel.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0y5Cu0-000qEuC; Wed, 18 Feb 98 09:03 PST