From owner-ibis Wed Jul 5 14:58:15 2000 Received: from intermailhost.viewlogic.com (intermailhost.viewlogic.com [139.181.6.17]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA22461 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 14:58:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.viewlogic.com (mailhost.viewlogic.com [139.181.3.35]) by intermailhost.viewlogic.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA26265 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 17:55:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from taurus.camarillo.innoveda.com (taurus.camarillo.innoveda.com [139.181.194.20]) by mailhost.viewlogic.com (8.8.6/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA27555 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 17:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from f22.innoveda.com (f22.camarillo.innoveda.com [139.181.194.48]) by taurus.camarillo.innoveda.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA18671 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 12:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by f22.innoveda.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA03207; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 12:59:00 -0700 Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 12:59:00 -0700 From: guy@camarillo.innoveda.com (Guy de Burgh) Message-Id: <200007051959.MAA03207@f22.innoveda.com> To: ibis@eda.org Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes (6/30/00) Date: 7/5/00 SUBJECT: 6/30/00 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2000 PARTICIPANTS LIST: 3Com Roy Leventhal* Agilent (EEsof, etc.) Mark Chang Applied Simulation Technology Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri Avanti Nikolai Bannov Cadence Design Mike LaBonte*, Todd Westerhoff, Ian Dodd*, Donald Telian, Patrick Dos Santos Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Irfan Elahi, John Fisher Compaq [Bob Haller], Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio, Shafier Rahman, Doug Burns Cypress (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation (Fabrizio Zanella), Fairchild Semiconductor Craig Klem HyperLynx (& Pads Software) Matthew Flora*, Kellee Crisafulli, Gene Garat, John Angulo*, Al Davis, Lynne Green IBM Michael Cohen*, Greg Edlund, Jerry Hayes Innoveda (Viewlogic Systems) Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh*, Jun Tian, Cary Mandel, Brad Griffin, (Jon Powell) Intel Corporation Stephen Peters, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs, Richard Mellitz, Charles Phares, Meir Nakar, Sigeti Gabi LSI Logic (Larry Barnes) Mentor Graphics (& Veribest) Bob Ross, Tom Dagostino, Malcolm Ash, Kim Owen, Jean Oudinot, Sherif Hammad, Hazam Hegazy, Weston Beal, Ken Bakalar Mitsubishi Shahab Ahmed, Carleen Murphy Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Motorola Ron Werner National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz* North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Tony Sinker Nortel Networks Steve Coe, Calvin Trowell, Hassan Ali Philips Semiconductor D.C. Sessions, Todd Andersen (& VLSI Technology) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Siemens AG Bernhard Unger, Gerald Bannert SiQual Scott McMorrow, Wis Macomson Texas Instruments Stephen Nolan*, Ramzi Ammar, Mac McCaughey, Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin, Jean-Yves Oberle Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steven Corey Tyco Electronics (AMP) (Russell Moser) Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) Werner Rissiek, John Berrie OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2000: Actel Corp. Silvia Montoya Advansis Mikio Kiyono Aerospatiale Matra CCR Lionel Dreux, Julien Boullie Alcatel (Lannion, Bell) Daniel Peron, Steven Criel Brocade Communications Robert Badal ECI Telecom Daniel Adar EIA Cecilia Fleming* Fraunhofer Institute Michael Kurten Jet Propulsion Lab John Treichlew Hewlett Packard Paul Gregory Rockwell Collins Ron Hau Signals & Systems Engineering Tom Hawkins ST Micorelectronics Fabrice Boissiere, Pierre Saintot Sun Microsystems Victor Chang Thomson-CSF Savenrio Lerose, Pascal Vaslin, Thierry Zak, Sylvie Lasserre Transfer Hans Klos, Wilco Hamhuis Xilinx, Inc. Susan Wu Independent, Consultant Hideki Fukuda In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode July 21, 2000 (916) 356-9200 6-234828 2232822 August 11, 2000 (916) 356-9200 6-234930 7474775 August 25, 2000 (916) 356-9200 4-347958 9918979 September 14, 2000 IBIS Summit Meeting - No Teleconference All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM No new participants. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Guy de Burgh is checking and updating some primary and secondary IBIS membership names that exist on the roster so that we have an accurate list of contacts. He is following up on some known changes. Treasurer's report: Cecilia Fleming reported no change. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The May 26, 2000 and June 8, 2000 IBIS Minutes were approved. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS None. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES Cecilia Fleming reported that she had moved the IBIS web site to the EIG server. You will be re-directed to the new site on Wednesday. Currently there is a notice that the site has moved. Cecilia Fleming has corresponded with the Webmaster (Syed Huq) about this move. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Mike LaBonte reported that he has taken a copy of the existing Web page and is checking and fixing broken links. He is approximately 50% of the way through this. When completed he will give this to Syed Huq to post on the IBIS web site. The current page still exists, which shows Jon Powell as Librarian. When the new page is ready Mike will contact Jon to see if he has received any new updates. Mike hopes to have the new page completed by the next meeting. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES None. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS No report. DAC 2000 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING FEEDBACK Guy de Burgh reported that all the presentation material and the minutes are now uploaded. The presentations can be found in: http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/jun00 PCB EAST 2000 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANNING Need other sponsors. So far, Cadence and NESA will be a co-sponsors. Guy de Burgh will send out an email to invite others to be sponsors of this event. DESIGNCON 2001 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANNING DesignCon 2001 is being held again in San Jose California from January 29, 2001 to February 1, 2001. Guy de Burgh reported that Bob Ross is working on preliminary arrangements for the EIA IBIS Open Forum to be an Associate Sponsor of DesignCon 2001. We have benefited from this arrangement the last few years. DesignCon 2001 is being held again in San Jose California from January 29, 2001 to February 1, 2001. We are planning to hold the IBIS Summit meeting on Monday, January 29, 2001. As a result we get to have a free, all day meeting on site and also a booth. We are listed in the literature as an Associate Sponsor. The terms have been circulated to the IBIS Officers and are generally acceptable. The only significant change from last year is the organizers want to list the IBIS Summit Meeting in the literature. Bob Ross feels this is OK as long as we can list a signup address so we can estimate the number of attendees for refreshments and lunch. Mike Cohen would like to know the size of the room that will be provided, as a "standing room only" size of room would not be acceptable. Guy de Burgh will ask Bob Ross to find out the size of a "large meeting room". Mike LaBonte pointed out that the signup would have to be an email address (the Secretary's) as it would not be possible to sign up at the show. Approval deferred to next meeting. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Matthew Flora reported that a couple of models had come in from TI. Stephen Nolan questioned the whole value of the model evaluation procedure as the number of responses he's received was low. The response's he did receive were good though. He mentioned that the intent is good but the participation is poor. Matthew Flora noted that the number of people in the review committee is down recently. He explained how the group works, what its goals are, and how it responds to clients. Mike LaBonte mentioned that he reviews about 1-2 models per month and it takes him about 1-4 hours to review each model. As the reports are direct Mike wonders if anyone else is reviewing the same model and if effort is being duplicated. Stephen Nolan mentioned that he will still use the review committee for his models. Stephen Nolan would like the committee to publish a model validation checklist. Roy Leventhal suggested that the EDA vendors supply, under NDA, this data to semiconductor manufacturers. Mike Cohen asked if the committee makes recommendations if data is missing. Matthew Flora points out construction issues, but data issues depend on how much data is supplied by the reviewer. Stephen Nolan is writing a model building doc. for internal use and asked if the committee would review it. Matthew Flora suggested that this be sent to the IBIS users reflector for review. Milt Schwartz mentioned that created a starting point check list, which Stephen Nolan, suggested be posted on the ibis users reflector. Roy Leventhal will post his check list on the ibis uses reflector. Matthew Flora would like volunteers for the review committee. Please contact Matthew at mbflora@hyperlynx.com CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW (CONTINUED) Ian Dodd mentioned that Gus Panella has put together examples of the swath matrix that has gone out to members of the group for review. IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx) Mike LaBonte reported that he is hosting teleconference meeting on a bi-weekly basis since Stephen Peters is on sabbatical for several months. Stephen will still be available to prepare draft documents and work with the Working Group. Two meetings on June 14 and June 27 have been held so far. Mike reported that Mike LaBonte reported that there was a lot of discussion as to whether the language be targeted to current simulation capabilities or should it include capabilities that would require modification to the simulators. He mentioned Al Davis' macro language which has examples, but needs more documentation. A formal specification proposal is being developed. Stephen Peters may have this soon. Mike also reported that, since the last IBIS meeting where Mike Cohen had asked if silicon vendors would join this committee, Stephen Nolan from TI has joined. IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING BUGS 41, 42, 43, 44 sent out to reflector for review. - BUG34 - No Error Reported for Missing V/I Tables in Output Buffers Not discussed. - BUG41 - Issue Warning Instead of Error for Common Differential Pin Stephen Nolan proposed a motion to approve that this bug be fixed. Approved unanimously. Matthew Flora then described how the bug gets fixed. - BUG42 - Warning Message for Outputs with Thresholds Needed Matthew Flora said that a warning is appropriate, but would like to change the wording by adding more information and clarification to the message. Matthew will come up with appropriate wording. Arpad Muranyi suggested that we include other impossible combinations too. Matthew mentioned that we do not have to cover every possible combination, just the most common ones. Guy de Burgh suggested that everyone submit their favorite list to the BUG42 reflector for review. Mike LaBonte will submit his list. - BUG43 - Error for Zero or Negative dV/dt Ramp Data Needed Main discussion was on whether this should be a warning or an error. Matthew Flora and Roy Leventhal thought that this is a MEDIUM priority bug. Mike Cohen thought that this is a HIGH priority bug. The dV/dt data is required data whether or not you have VT data. Milt Schwartz uses the dV/dt data as a check of the validity of the VT data. Arpad Muranyi mentioned that if you have VT data you don't need dV/dt data but, as it is required, arbitrary meaningless numbers are put there. Mike LaBonte mentioned that people only look for errors, not warnings. Arpad suggested cross checking the dV/dt data against the VT data. Guy de Burgh suggested that this be an error if no VT data exists, and a warning if VT data exists. Arpad mentioned that the warning (or error) should follow the IBIS specification which specifies syntax rather than content. Matthew would like this as an error so that it stands out, as warnings are often ignored. Mike LaBonte mentioned that error and warning messages be based on how the model is being used. This would mean a configurable parser which would alleviate this particular bug. Matthew suggested the user be allowed to suppress specific error messages. This is scheduled for a vote at the next meeting. - BUG44 - Warning for Parasitic Resistance Set Too High at 1000 Ohms Matthew Flora described the problem. Mike LaBonte suggested that this parameter can be determined from model data. Arpad Muranyi suggested a way to do this for this particular case. Ian Dodd suggested changing this to 50 Ohms. Proposal is to change this from 1000 Ohms to 50 Ohms. This is scheduled for a vote at the next meeting. It is classified as ANNOYING and LOW. BIRD61.1 - ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVERS Not Discussed. BIRD64.1 - PACKAGE MODE SELECTOR Not Discussed. BIRD65 - C_comp REFINEMENTS Arpad Muranyi described the current description of the BIRD. He would like to extend the BIRD to include voltage dependency of C_comp. I.e. a Voltage vs. Capacitance table rather than a single value. Milt Schwartz asked how this data could be generated. Arpad described how it could be measured. His method is outlined in the IBIS tutorial that he taught. The tutorial is uploaded on the IBIS web site. Arpad also mentioned that you could have different values for C_comp when the buffer is driving or receiving. Arpad will update the BIRD and it will be discussed at the next meeting. BIRD66 - [Model Spec] Vref ADDITION Not discussed. NEW TECHNOLOGIES Not discussed. IBIS4 Arpad asked whether we should focus on IBIS4 or concentrate on IBISX. Ian Dodd asked what was in IBIS4. E.g. what BIRDs, bugs and features are part of it. Also why is it version 4, rather than 3.3. Bob Ross will provide the feature list and post it on the reflector. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, July 21, 2000 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-209 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@innoveda.com Senior Manager, Innoveda 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Mike LaBonte (978) 262-6496, Fax: (978) 446-6798 mikelabonte@cadence.com Senior Technologist, Cadence Design Systems 270 Billerica Road Chelmsford, MA 01824 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 angulo@hyperlynx.com Development Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc. 114715 N.E. 95th Street Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ============================================================================== From owner-ibis Wed Jul 5 21:09:57 2000 Received: from hotmail.com (f50.law3.hotmail.com [209.185.241.50]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id VAA23962 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2000 21:09:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 51581 invoked by uid 0); 6 Jul 2000 04:07:13 -0000 Message-ID: <20000706040713.51580.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 199.203.119.93 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 05 Jul 2000 21:07:13 PDT X-Originating-IP: [199.203.119.93] From: "Sho Kolad" To: ibis@eda.org Subject: Please unsubscribe me. Best Regards. sho_kolad@hotmail.com Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 04:07:13 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-ibis Thu Jul 6 12:15:34 2000 Received: from seattle.3com.com (seattle.3com.com [129.213.128.97]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA27163 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 12:15:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Roy_Leventhal@3com.com Received: from new-york.3com.com (new-york.3com.com [129.213.157.12]) by seattle.3com.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02385 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 12:12:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hqoutbound.ops.3com.com (hqoutbound.OPS.3Com.COM [139.87.48.104]) by new-york.3com.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA03162 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 12:12:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hqoutbound.ops.3com.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.7 (934.1 12-30-1999)) id 88256914.00695835 ; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 12:10:38 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: 3COM To: ibis@eda.org Message-ID: <88256914.006927A0.00@hqoutbound.ops.3com.com> Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 14:11:53 -0500 Subject: Model Check List Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline All, At the last phone-in meeting I pledged to share our steps in checking and using IBIS models we receive for the sake of getting a discussion going on the subject: Our process has been partially defined, documented and controlled as part of our ISO 9000 certification. The modeling process has been done. The simulation process is in discussion and there is general agreement on it. But, it has to be brought to closure. Formality in following the model acquisition and verification process is somewhat lax among product design engineers. This is primarily due to newness and schedule pressure. The consequence of this laxness is that very valuable lead time in acquiring the models gets lost. In the discussion below model element is equivalent to keyword. The process intends that we: Start with model elements and verification needed: The user (person who will simulate Signal Integrity) determines (estimates) what model elements he or she needs in the IBIS file and specifies same on a model request form (ISO document). Also specified on the request form is what "level of verification" will be needed. The elements requested have a direct bearing on any model checklist and verification. For instance, is dV/dt good enough or will V-T waveform data be needed? Is conform to the data sheet good enough, or will lab measurement verification be needed? This is done either at the time a new component is requested (ISO document), or when a design is to be reused and re-simulated/simulated, or when troubleshooting a production problem. To guide the user there is an internal IBIS standard (ISO document) which draws heavily on the current IBIS standard. It does a few additional things: 1) Organize and separate model elements for better understanding and readability; 2) Separate model elements into a minimum standard (required of all) group and an optional (not required unless specified by the user) group; 3) Define the four 3Com verification levels, and; 4) Explain methods for creating, verifying and detecting/correcting common IBIS model mistakes. My current list of common mistakes, what most people consider is their "checklist," is included below. Also, to assist the user in estimating the model elements and accuracy needed there is a "How to Use," a "Logic Family Signal Integrity Comparisons" and a "Signal Integrity - Board Design and Simulation Techniques" (non-ISO) document available on our internal web site. Accuracy needs are a trade-off with device capability, logic speed, complexity, and tolerance to variation. Next, there is a process (ISO document) for deciding to make or buy the IBIS model. For buying an IBIS model we have a "3Com IBIS Model Acceptance Criteria" (not yet ISO) document to summarize and guide them through our overabundance of documentation. For making an IBIS model we have a "Simulation Model Creation and Updating Process (ISO).," an "IBIS model Syntax Guide (non-ISO)" and a "Simulation Model Verification Process (ISO)" document available. We are developing procedures for storing IBIS models in our component library data base for use in SI simulation. This will have to address the case of models from EDA tool vendor libraries and their verification. 3Com Verification Levels outlined: Level 1 by direct measurement: High level of approval. Level 2 by correlation with a correlated SPICE model. Level 3 by correlation with a data sheet. Level 4 No parametric verification - will run in simulator: Low level of approval. IBIS model file checked for correct syntax with IBIS Golden Parser and/or Cadence ibis2signoise. We also make use of the "I/O Buffer Accuracy Handbook" from the IBIS committee. Current Common Errors Checklist: 1. Numerous [End] statements. Improper use of SPICE2IBIS tools? Correction: Text edit the IBIS file and remove the extra statements. 2. Syntax errors of all sorts. For example: Tab characters following keywords, lines longer than 80 ASCII characters, non-ASCII characters, ( / ) \ % @ # * etc., etc. Data item names too many characters long. Missing keywords and data items. Literal (actual) keywords inserted in the text of uncommented-out notes. File names that are different than the [File name ] keyword. Etc. Only spaces and underbars "_" are allowed in names. Syntax errors in supplied IBIS models are so common as to hardly bear mentioning. Correction: Use the latest version of the IBIS Standard, this 3Com IBIS Standard, the IBIS Golden Parser downloaded from their website, our Cadence ibis2signoise parser, and Appendix A: "IBIS Model Syntax Guide" to diagnose and fix the problem. Otherwise, have the IBIS model supplier send you a corrected file. 3. Missing units in [Package]. H instead of nH, F instead of pF. Correction: Verify the correct units with the IBIS model supplier and text edit the IBIS model file to add them if the work isn't excessive. Otherwise, have the IBIS model supplier send you a corrected file. 4. No minus signs on current out of a device ([Pullup], [GND Clamp]). Correction: Verify the correct current convention with the IBIS model supplier and ask them to send you a corrected model file. Because of the amount of work required, text edit the IBIS model file to correct the problem only if the supplier is not forthcoming in a timely fashion. 5. [Pullup] and [POWER Clamp] not Vcc relative. Comment: The IBIS convention is Vtable = Vcc - Voutput. So, for a Vcc of 5 volts when: Voutput = -5, then Vtable = 10 Voutput = 0, then Vtable = 5 Voutput = 10, then Vtable = -5 Correction: Verify the correct voltage convention with the IBIS model supplier and ask them to send you a corrected model file. Because of the amount of work required, text edit the IBIS model file to correct the problem by adding or subtracting a constant amount (usually the Vcc value) only if the supplier is not forthcoming in a timely fashion. 6. Range of V-I curves do not correspond to -Vcc to +2Vcc. Correction: Verify the correct voltage range with the IBIS model supplier and ask them to send you a corrected model file. Because of the amount of work required, text edit the IBIS model file to correct the only if the supplier is not forthcoming in a timely fashion. You can add or subtract data points. Linear extensions of curves are reasonable when adding points 7. No clamps in [Model] possible, but suspicious. One possible explanation of missing clamp curves is that their currents were included in the pullup/pulldown curves of a measured device model. Particularly in a non tri-state-able device where they cannot be separated out of the total output current. Another possible explanation is a 5 volt TTL compatible input on a low voltage device where they are not present. But, most high speed digital devices incorporate ESD protection. Correction: After verifying problem, require generation of a corrected model by model supplier. Otherwise not correctable. 8. Unrealistic currents in clamp curves, i.e., GigaAmperes, Nano-Picoamperes, etc. Correction: Consult with device supplier regarding realistic maximum and minimum currents. Contact model supplier and ask them to send you a corrected model file. Because of the amount of work required, text edit the IBIS model file to correct the problem only if the supplier is not forthcoming in a timely fashion. To correct the file, delete all the unrealistically high data entries. Also, clamp curves should eventually clamp. Instead of ridiculously small values at the end of the curve, just set the current to zero. Most simulators want to see at least two consecutive points of 0 mA at the end of all clamp curves. 9. Non-unique [Model] statements, i.e., two cells called "Output." Correction: Consult with device supplier regarding which cells are the correct ones. Contact model supplier and ask them to send you a corrected model file. Text edit the IBIS model file to correct the problem only if the supplier is not forthcoming in a timely fashion. To correct the file, delete all the incorrect cells. 10. [Ramp] dt doesn't represent 20% to 80% into 50 ohms. Correction: Get the corrected slew rates from the model supplier and text edit the IBIS model file to correct the problem. If the supplier is not forthcoming in a timely fashion, do the following: The slew rate you have, dV/dt_original, will have to be "re-sized" to the correct definition of 20% to 80% of the output switching range. First, you will have to establish the correct output switching range, call this V. Most often this will be Vcc = 0 volts. But, not always. For instance, the output swing of a BTL driver is 2.1 to 1.1 volts or 1 volt. Then, calculate 60% (80% - 20%) of V = dV_new. Next, find dt_new given that dV/dt_original = dV/dt_new. Finally, enter the corrected slew rate(s) in the IBIS file. 11. Slew Rates ([Ramp] - dV/dt_r, dV/dt_f) are ridiculous, i.e. 1.5E-10nS. Comment: What can I say? Correction: You get the idea. 12. Data table typ-min-max in wrong order. Correction: Contact model supplier and ask them to send you a corrected model file. Because of the amount of work required, text edit the IBIS model file to correct the problem only if the supplier is not forthcoming in a timely fashion. To correct the file, all the data will have to be re-entered in the correct order. 13. Big discontinuities (large spikes) and non-monotonicity in V-I or V-T curves when viewed visually. Comment; Most simulators nowadays can handle small discontinuities in the input data fed them. But, large discontinuities usually prevent convergence. Large discontinuities are also not realistic and are usually caused by measurement artefacts and/or simulation of unrealistic models. The IBIS golden parser, ibischk3 (and probably many other versions), checks for non-monotonicity in the IBIS file and gives warnings. Any non-monotonicity data can be removed when the parser gives a warning. Correction: Again, contact the model supplier and ask them to send you a corrected model file. Because of the amount of work required, text edit the IBIS model file to correct the problem only if the supplier is not forthcoming in a timely fashion. To correct the file, delete all the unrealistic data entries and re-enter smoothed data for the offending points. 14. Double counting of clamp currents, i.e., [GND Clamp] magnitudes in both [GND Clamp] and [Pulldown]. Comment: The V-I curves of an output, as measured, will include the action of the pullup/pulldown curves and the clamps, if present. In many devices it is possible to disable the pullup/pulldown and then measure the action of the clamps alone. Sometimes model suppliers forget to subtract the clamp currents from the total output behavior and present the behavior of the pullup/pulldown itself. Correction: contact the model supplier and ask them to send you a corrected model file. Because of the amount of work required, textedit the IBIS model file to correct the problem only if the supplier is not forthcoming in a timely fashion. To correct the file, subtract the clamp currents from the total output currents and enter the remainder as the pullup/pulldown curve(s). 15. Common Differential Pin-Pair Mistakes: Making the non-inverting pin inverting, or vice versa, on drivers or receivers. Entering Launch Delay data for a receiver (Input) cell. Entering Vil or Vih data for a driver (Output) cell. A word on running a file through the IBIS golden parser or Cadence ibis2signoise: About half of all IBIS files I receive contain the most careless of mistakes: incomplete pin lists (very common), no IBIS version specified, input cells with no thresholds or only one threshold, file names that don't match [File Name], data not in the typ-min-max sequence files with output cells only - no inputs or I/Os, missing model cells, duplicate Model_name - you name it. Often, it seems to me, these files are created by people who have never run a single Signal Integrity simulation met a product design objective and have not a clue regarding their customer's needs. In their defense, IBIS is complex; IBIS files are long, detailed and boring reading, and; computer data input is unforgiving. It seems to me that IBIS model suppliers need to make habitual use of good parsers (syntax mistakes tend to jump out) and do at least an eyeball check in a graphical user interface (odd curves, missing pin lists, etc., tend to jump out). Excellent parsers are available from EDA tool vendors. One can only hope that they have enough sense to provide them free of charge to semiconductor suppliers. No or bad models - no tool sales. Plus, parsers can be designed to do reality checks on the data itself, not just syntax and inclusion of required elements tests. A word on "experimental" models: 2/3rds of all IBIS models requested and unavailable on the web, etc., I never get in time (or ever) to do me any good in meeting a development schedule. On critical nets I'm forced to "innovate." This includes borrowing I/O cells of parts from similar, as closely matching as possible technology, cobbling together a pin list from the data sheet, etc., and creating an experimental model - including my estimate of typ-min-max. This may be good enough if it appears that; 1) I have lots of design margin and/or; 2) I send my "what-if" model to my supplier and ask them to make the parts like the model or tell me what they can make. This at least gets some dialog going and some guesstimate of device performance. Just now I haven't though through all the implications of this nor the storage and use of such models. Lastly, I'll be sending as many documents as possible referred to above to Syed Huq for review and possible posting of portions to the IBIS website. Neither of us wants to make the content too company (user, supplier or tool vendor) centric. Open for discussion. Best Regards to All, Roy From owner-ibis Thu Jul 6 12:42:38 2000 Received: from seattle.3com.com (seattle.3com.com [129.213.128.97]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA27249 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 12:42:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Roy_Leventhal@3com.com Received: from new-york.3com.com (new-york.3com.com [129.213.157.12]) by seattle.3com.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14542 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 12:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hqoutbound.ops.3com.com (hqoutbound.OPS.3Com.COM [139.87.48.104]) by new-york.3com.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA15451 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 12:39:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hqoutbound.ops.3com.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.7 (934.1 12-30-1999)) id 88256914.006BCECE ; Thu, 6 Jul 2000 12:37:32 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: 3COM To: ibis@eda.org Message-ID: <88256914.006BC8F4.00@hqoutbound.ops.3com.com> Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 14:40:58 -0500 Subject: Model Check List Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline All, At the last phone-in meeting I pledged to share our steps in checking and using IBIS models we receive for the sake of getting a discussion going on the subject: Our process has been partially defined, documented and controlled as part of our ISO 9000 certification. The modeling process has been done. The simulation process is in discussion and there is general agreement on it. But, it has to be brought to closure. Formality in following the model acquisition and verification process is somewhat lax among product design engineers. This is primarily due to newness and schedule pressure. The consequence of this laxness is that very valuable lead time in acquiring the models gets lost. In the discussion below model element is equivalent to keyword. The process intends that we: Start with model elements and verification needed: The user (person who will simulate Signal Integrity) determines (estimates) what model elements he or she needs in the IBIS file and specifies same on a model request form (ISO document). Also specified on the request form is what "level of verification" will be needed. The elements requested have a direct bearing on any model checklist and verification. For instance, is dV/dt good enough or will V-T waveform data be needed? Is conform to the data sheet good enough, or will lab measurement verification be needed? This is done either at the time a new component is requested (ISO document), or when a design is to be reused and re-simulated/simulated, or when troubleshooting a production problem. To guide the user there is an internal IBIS standard (ISO document) which draws heavily on the current IBIS standard. It does a few additional things: 1) Organize and separate model elements for better understanding and readability; 2) Separate model elements into a minimum standard (required of all) group and an optional (not required unless specified by the user) group; 3) Define the four 3Com verification levels, and; 4) Explain methods for creating, verifying and detecting/correcting common IBIS model mistakes. My current list of common mistakes, what most people consider is their "checklist," is included below. Also, to assist the user in estimating the model elements and accuracy needed there is a "How to Use," a "Logic Family Signal Integrity Comparisons" and a "Signal Integrity - Board Design and Simulation Techniques" (non-ISO) document available on our internal web site. Accuracy needs are a trade-off with device capability, logic speed, complexity, and tolerance to variation. Next, there is a process (ISO document) for deciding to make or buy the IBIS model. For buying an IBIS model we have a "3Com IBIS Model Acceptance Criteria" (not yet ISO) document to summarize and guide them through our overabundance of documentation. For making an IBIS model we have a "Simulation Model Creation and Updating Process (ISO).," an "IBIS model Syntax Guide (non-ISO)" and a "Simulation Model Verification Process (ISO)" document available. We are developing procedures for storing IBIS models in our component library data base for use in SI simulation. This will have to address the case of models from EDA tool vendor libraries and their verification. 3Com Verification Levels outlined: Level 1 by direct measurement: High level of approval. Level 2 by correlation with a correlated SPICE model. Level 3 by correlation with a data sheet. Level 4 No parametric verification - will run in simulator: Low level of approval. IBIS model file checked for correct syntax with IBIS Golden Parser and/or Cadence ibis2signoise. We also make use of the "I/O Buffer Accuracy Handbook" from the IBIS committee. Current Common Errors Checklist: 1. Numerous [End] statements. Improper use of SPICE2IBIS tools? Correction: Text edit the IBIS file and remove the extra statements. 2. Syntax errors of all sorts. For example: Tab characters following keywords, lines longer than 80 ASCII characters, non-ASCII characters, ( / ) \ % @ # * etc., etc. Data item names too many characters long. Missing keywords and data items. Literal (actual) keywords inserted in the text of uncommented-out notes. File names that are different than the [File name ] keyword. Etc. Only spaces and underbars "_" are allowed in names. Syntax errors in supplied IBIS models are so common as to hardly bear mentioning. Correction: Use the latest version of the IBIS Standard, this 3Com IBIS Standard, the IBIS Golden Parser downloaded from their website, our Cadence ibis2signoise parser, and Appendix A: "IBIS Model Syntax Guide" to diagnose and fix the problem. Otherwise, have the IBIS model supplier send you a corrected file. 3. Missing units in [Package]. H instead of nH, F instead of pF. Correction: Verify the correct units with the IBIS model supplier and text edit the IBIS model file to add them if the work isn't excessive. Otherwise, have the IBIS model supplier send you a corrected file. 4. No minus signs on current out of a device ([Pullup], [GND Clamp]). Correction: Verify the correct current convention with the IBIS model supplier and ask them to send you a corrected model file. Because of the amount of work required, text edit the IBIS model file to correct the problem only if the supplier is not forthcoming in a timely fashion. 5. [Pullup] and [POWER Clamp] not Vcc relative. Comment: The IBIS convention is Vtable = Vcc - Voutput. So, for a Vcc of 5 volts when: Voutput = -5, then Vtable = 10 Voutput = 0, then Vtable = 5 Voutput = 10, then Vtable = -5 Correction: Verify the correct voltage convention with the IBIS model supplier and ask them to send you a corrected model file. Because of the amount of work required, text edit the IBIS model file to correct the problem by adding or subtracting a constant amount (usually the Vcc value) only if the supplier is not forthcoming in a timely fashion. 6. Range of V-I curves do not correspond to -Vcc to +2Vcc. Correction: Verify the correct voltage range with the IBIS model supplier and ask them to send you a corrected model file. Because of the amount of work required, text edit the IBIS model file to correct the only if the supplier is not forthcoming in a timely fashion. You can add or subtract data points. Linear extensions of curves are reasonable when adding points 7. No clamps in [Model] possible, but suspicious. One possible explanation of missing clamp curves is that their currents were included in the pullup/pulldown curves of a measured device model. Particularly in a non tri-state-able device where they cannot be separated out of the total output current. Another possible explanation is a 5 volt TTL compatible input on a low voltage device where they are not present. But, most high speed digital devices incorporate ESD protection. Correction: After verifying problem, require generation of a corrected model by model supplier. Otherwise not correctable. 8. Unrealistic currents in clamp curves, i.e., GigaAmperes, Nano-Picoamperes, etc. Correction: Consult with device supplier regarding realistic maximum and minimum currents. Contact model supplier and ask them to send you a corrected model file. Because of the amount of work required, text edit the IBIS model file to correct the problem only if the supplier is not forthcoming in a timely fashion. To correct the file, delete all the unrealistically high data entries. Also, clamp curves should eventually clamp. Instead of ridiculously small values at the end of the curve, just set the current to zero. Most simulators want to see at least two consecutive points of 0 mA at the end of all clamp curves. 9. Non-unique [Model] statements, i.e., two cells called "Output." Correction: Consult with device supplier regarding which cells are the correct ones. Contact model supplier and ask them to send you a corrected model file. Text edit the IBIS model file to correct the problem only if the supplier is not forthcoming in a timely fashion. To correct the file, delete all the incorrect cells. 10. [Ramp] dt doesn't represent 20% to 80% into 50 ohms. Correction: Get the corrected slew rates from the model supplier and text edit the IBIS model file to correct the problem. If the supplier is not forthcoming in a timely fashion, do the following: The slew rate you have, dV/dt_original, will have to be "re-sized" to the correct definition of 20% to 80% of the output switching range. First, you will have to establish the correct output switching range, call this V. Most often this will be Vcc = 0 volts. But, not always. For instance, the output swing of a BTL driver is 2.1 to 1.1 volts or 1 volt. Then, calculate 60% (80% - 20%) of V = dV_new. Next, find dt_new given that dV/dt_original = dV/dt_new. Finally, enter the corrected slew rate(s) in the IBIS file. 11. Slew Rates ([Ramp] - dV/dt_r, dV/dt_f) are ridiculous, i.e. 1.5E-10nS. Comment: What can I say? Correction: You get the idea. 12. Data table typ-min-max in wrong order. Correction: Contact model supplier and ask them to send you a corrected model file. Because of the amount of work required, text edit the IBIS model file to correct the problem only if the supplier is not forthcoming in a timely fashion. To correct the file, all the data will have to be re-entered in the correct order. 13. Big discontinuities (large spikes) and non-monotonicity in V-I or V-T curves when viewed visually. Comment; Most simulators nowadays can handle small discontinuities in the input data fed them. But, large discontinuities usually prevent convergence. Large discontinuities are also not realistic and are usually caused by measurement artefacts and/or simulation of unrealistic models. The IBIS golden parser, ibischk3 (and probably many other versions), checks for non-monotonicity in the IBIS file and gives warnings. Any non-monotonicity data can be removed when the parser gives a warning. Correction: Again, contact the model supplier and ask them to send you a corrected model file. Because of the amount of work required, text edit the IBIS model file to correct the problem only if the supplier is not forthcoming in a timely fashion. To correct the file, delete all the unrealistic data entries and re-enter smoothed data for the offending points. 14. Double counting of clamp currents, i.e., [GND Clamp] magnitudes in both [GND Clamp] and [Pulldown]. Comment: The V-I curves of an output, as measured, will include the action of the pullup/pulldown curves and the clamps, if present. In many devices it is possible to disable the pullup/pulldown and then measure the action of the clamps alone. Sometimes model suppliers forget to subtract the clamp currents from the total output behavior and present the behavior of the pullup/pulldown itself. Correction: contact the model supplier and ask them to send you a corrected model file. Because of the amount of work required, textedit the IBIS model file to correct the problem only if the supplier is not forthcoming in a timely fashion. To correct the file, subtract the clamp currents from the total output currents and enter the remainder as the pullup/pulldown curve(s). 15. Common Differential Pin-Pair Mistakes: Making the non-inverting pin inverting, or vice versa, on drivers or receivers. Entering Launch Delay data for a receiver (Input) cell. Entering Vil or Vih data for a driver (Output) cell. A word on running a file through the IBIS golden parser or Cadence ibis2signoise: About half of all IBIS files I receive contain the most careless of mistakes: incomplete pin lists (very common), no IBIS version specified, input cells with no thresholds or only one threshold, file names that don't match [File Name], data not in the typ-min-max sequence files with output cells only - no inputs or I/Os, missing model cells, duplicate Model_name - you name it. Often, it seems to me, these files are created by people who have never run a single Signal Integrity simulation met a product design objective and have not a clue regarding their customer's needs. In their defense, IBIS is complex; IBIS files are long, detailed and boring reading, and; computer data input is unforgiving. It seems to me that IBIS model suppliers need to make habitual use of good parsers (syntax mistakes tend to jump out) and do at least an eyeball check in a graphical user interface (odd curves, missing pin lists, etc., tend to jump out). Excellent parsers are available from EDA tool vendors. One can only hope that they have enough sense to provide them free of charge to semiconductor suppliers. No or bad models - no tool sales. Plus, parsers can be designed to do reality checks on the data itself, not just syntax and inclusion of required elements tests. A word on "experimental" models: 2/3rds of all IBIS models requested and unavailable on the web, etc., I never get in time (or ever) to do me any good in meeting a development schedule. On critical nets I'm forced to "innovate." This includes borrowing I/O cells of parts from similar, as closely matching as possible technology, cobbling together a pin list from the data sheet, etc., and creating an experimental model - including my estimate of typ-min-max. This may be good enough if it appears that; 1) I have lots of design margin and/or; 2) I send my "what-if" model to my supplier and ask them to make the parts like the model or tell me what they can make. This at least gets some dialog going and some guesstimate of device performance. Just now I haven't though through all the implications of this nor the storage and use of such models. Lastly, I'll be sending as many documents as possible referred to above to Syed Huq for review and possible posting of portions to the IBIS website. Neither of us wants to make the content too company (user, supplier or tool vendor) centric. Open for discussion. Best Regards to All, Roy From owner-ibis Fri Jul 14 11:28:18 2000 Received: from intermailhost.viewlogic.com (intermailhost.viewlogic.com [139.181.6.17]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA01277 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:28:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.viewlogic.com (mailhost.viewlogic.com [139.181.3.35]) by intermailhost.viewlogic.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA04642 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:25:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from taurus.camarillo.innoveda.com (taurus.camarillo.innoveda.com [139.181.194.20]) by mailhost.viewlogic.com (8.8.6/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA07304 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:25:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from f22.innoveda.com (f22.camarillo.innoveda.com [139.181.194.48]) by taurus.camarillo.innoveda.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA07646 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:25:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by f22.innoveda.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA06110; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:25:21 -0700 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:25:21 -0700 From: guy@camarillo.innoveda.com (Guy de Burgh) Message-Id: <200007141825.LAA06110@f22.innoveda.com> To: ibis@eda.org Subject: IBIS Open Forum Meeting Agenda IBIS Open Forum Meeting Agenda for 7/21/00 Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode (916) 356-9200 6-234828 2232822 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the Reservation Number and Passcode. 8:00 Check-In, Intros, Announcements Ross - Intros of New IBIS Participants, Meeting Quorum Ross - Membership Update and Treasurers Report Ross/Fleming - Review of Previous Meeting's Minutes (and ARs) Ross - Miscellany/Announcements All - Press & Web Page Updates Huq, All - New Models Available, Library Update LaBonte, All - Opens for New Issues All 8:15 Administrative and Project Discussions International/External Progress - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) Ross/Fleming - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) Ross - IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation (formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) Perrin - JEDEC JC-16 Modeling and Testing Sessions PCB EAST 2000 IBIS Summit Planning Ross DesignCon 2001 Preliminary IBIS Summit Planning Ross IBIS Model Review Committee Flora New Administrative Issues All 8:45 Technical Discussion (some topics may be deferred) Connector Proposal Review Panella/Crisafulli IBIS Futures Group Report (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx) Peters ibischk3 Bug Tracking Ross - BUG34 - No Error Reported for Missing V/I Tables Flora in Output Buffers - BUG41 - Issue Warning Instead of Error for Common Ross/Nolan Differential Pin - BUG42 - Warning Message for Outputs with Thresholds Ross Needed - BUG43 - Error for Zero or Negative dV/dt Ramp Data Ross Needed - BUG44 - Warning for Parasitic Resistance Set Too Ross High at 1000 Ohm BIRD61.1 - Enhanced Characterization of Receivers Ross BIRD64.1 - Package Model Selector Muranyi BIRD65 - C_comp Refinements Muranyi BIRD66 - [Model Spec] Vref Addition Ross New Technical Issues All 9:50 Wrap Up and Next Meetings Plans Ross 9:55 Sign Off From owner-ibis Tue Jul 25 09:22:55 2000 Received: from intermailhost.viewlogic.com (intermailhost.viewlogic.com [139.181.6.17]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA10410 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:22:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.viewlogic.com (mailhost.viewlogic.com [139.181.3.35]) by intermailhost.viewlogic.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11117 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 12:20:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from taurus.camarillo.innoveda.com (taurus.camarillo.innoveda.com [139.181.194.20]) by mailhost.viewlogic.com (8.8.6/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA28273 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 12:19:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from f22.innoveda.com (f22.camarillo.innoveda.com [139.181.194.48]) by taurus.camarillo.innoveda.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA11841 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:19:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by f22.innoveda.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA07977; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:19:56 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:19:56 -0700 From: guy@camarillo.innoveda.com (Guy de Burgh) Message-Id: <200007251619.JAA07977@f22.innoveda.com> To: ibis@eda.org Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes (7/21/00) Date: 7/25/00 SUBJECT: 7/21/00 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes VOTING MEMBERS AND 2000 PARTICIPANTS LIST: 3Com Roy Leventhal* Agilent (EEsof, etc.) Mark Chang Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken) Applied Simulation Technology Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri* Avanti Nikolai Bannov Cadence Design Mike LaBonte*, Todd Westerhoff, Ian Dodd*, Donald Telian, Patrick Dos Santos Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Irfan Elahi, John Fisher Compaq [Bob Haller], Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio, Shafier Rahman, Doug Burns Cypress (Rajesh Manapat) EMC Corporation (Fabrizio Zanella), Fairchild Semiconductor Craig Klem HyperLynx (& Pads Software) Matthew Flora*, Kellee Crisafulli, Gene Garat, John Angulo*, Al Davis, Lynne Green IBM Michael Cohen*, Greg Edlund, Jerry Hayes Innoveda (Viewlogic Systems) Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh*, Jun Tian, Cary Mandel, Brad Griffin, (Jon Powell) Intel Corporation Stephen Peters, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs, Richard Mellitz, Charles Phares, Meir Nakar, Sigeti Gabi LSI Logic (Larry Barnes) Mentor Graphics (& Veribest) Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Malcolm Ash, Kim Owen, Jean Oudinot, Sherif Hammad, Hazam Hegazy, Weston Beal, Ken Bakalar Mitsubishi Shahab Ahmed, Carleen Murphy Molex Incorporated Gus Panella Motorola Ron Werner National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre, Tony Sinker Nortel Networks Steve Coe, Calvin Trowell, Hassan Ali Philips Semiconductor D.C. Sessions, Todd Andersen (& VLSI Technology) Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham) Siemens AG Bernhard Unger, Gerald Bannert SiQual Scott McMorrow, Wis Macomson Texas Instruments Stephen Nolan*, Ramzi Ammar, Mac McCaughey, Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin, Jean-Yves Oberle Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steven Corey Tyco Electronics (AMP) (Russell Moser) Via Technologies (Weber Chuang) Zuken (& Incases) Werner Rissiek, John Berrie OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2000: Actel Corp. Silvia Montoya Advansis Mikio Kiyono Aerospatiale Matra CCR Lionel Dreux, Julien Boullie Alcatel (Lannion, Bell) Daniel Peron, Steven Criel Brocade Communications Robert Badal ECI Telecom Daniel Adar EIA Cecilia Fleming* Fraunhofer Institute Michael Kurten Jet Propulsion Lab John Treichlew Hewlett Packard Paul Gregory Rockwell Collins Ron Hau Signals & Systems Engineering Tom Hawkins ST Micorelectronics Fabrice Boissiere, Pierre Saintot Sun Microsystems Victor Chang Thomson-CSF Savenrio Lerose, Pascal Vaslin, Thierry Zak, Sylvie Lasserre Transfer Hans Klos, Wilco Hamhuis Xilinx, Inc. Susan Wu Independent, Consultant Hideki Fukuda In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets. Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as follows: Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode August 11, 2000 (916) 356-9200 6-234930 7474775 August 25, 2000 (916) 356-9200 4-347958 9918979 September 14, 2000 IBIS Summit Meeting - No Teleconference All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas out 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode. NOTE: "AR" = Action Required. -------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------- INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM No new participants. Bob Ross thanked Guy de Burgh for conducting the last meeting and handling general IBIS business. MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT Cecilia Fleming reported receiving the purchase order from Ansoft Corporation for EIA IBIS Open Forum membership. So Ansoft Corporation is now listed as a voting member. Guy de Burgh reported that he has generated an updated IBIS roster, but is still checking on some comments. Bob Ross commented that a few of the members that are on his list have been deleted this year since they have not paid. Bob will work with Cecilia off-line regarding some membership payments. REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S The June 30, 2000 IBIS Minutes were approved. The AR's will be discussed during the meeting. MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS Bob Ross had two course announcements: Raj Raghuram will be teaching a weekend course at San Jose State University on "Electrical Requirements of Microelectronic Packaging" starting September 2, 2000 and will cover IBIS if time permits. For further information contact Prof. Guna Selvaduray at SJSU: PH: (408) 924-3874 FAX:(408) 924-4057 email: gunas@email.sjsu.edu Arpad Muranyi will teach a two-day short course as part of the "Circuit Simulation and Signal Integrity in Microelectronic Circuits and Systems" as part of the 3-day short course sponsored by the University of Arizona and conducted in Phoenix, Arizona. Arpad will teach "Introduction to IBIS Models" and "IBIS Modeling Hands-on Experience". This course will be conducted in September 11-12, 2000. PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES No reports other than routine web page updates. NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE Mike LaBonte has provided an Update to the IBIS Model Library in the official IBIS Home page Models link. Mike will be adding some more models. He commented on the amount of work necessary to check out the links and also on the fact that links may change (and become busted) very quickly. Also, Mike is investigating the possibility of third party web sites that would support automatically locating models using their search engines. Mike will send a notice to the reflector for corrections and for information on more links. OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES None. INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Bob Ross may still need the document to help draft some header information. - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits (IMIC) - No report. - IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation (formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Ian Dodd asked if there is a Web Site. Bob Ross responded that he is waiting for some updated information that he can upload or distribute. The official information is contained in various European IBIS Summit presentations. The latest presentations are uploaded in March 2000. - JEDEC JC-16 - No Report. PCB EAST 2000 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANNING Bob Ross discussed the pending IBIS Summit Meeting scheduled on Thursday, September 14, 2000 in Worcester, Massachusetts and held along with the PCB East Conference 2000. The IBIS meeting will be at the Crowne Plaza hotel, a few blocks from the PCB East Conference. So far, Cadence and NESA are co-sponsors. Bob still needs to get in touch with Kathy Breda and get other sponsors. (Guy de Burgh had sent out a sponsorship request earlier on the IBIS reflector.) Bob indicated that some preliminary information will be sent out at the end of July, about six weeks before the meeting. The expected agenda should include Connector Model Specification, IBIS futures and IBIS accuracy and experiences. Later, the following presentation is expected: Roy Leventhal, 3com, - "IBIS and SI at 3com" (Presented by Mike LaBonte, Cadence) DESIGNCON 2001 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANNING Bob Ross discussed the planning done to date on the IBIS Summit Meeting held with DesignCon 2001 in San Jose, California. DesignCon 2001 is scheduled from January 29, 2001 to February 1, 2001. The IBIS Summit Meeting is currently scheduled on Monday, January 29, 2001. This was discussed at the last meeting. Bob commented in response to one issue that we are again planning to hold the meeting in one of the larger rooms. As before, we are planning to be an Associate Sponsor of DesignCon 2001. This year, we need to confirm this since we will be mentioned in the literature. One difference is that the literature will give signup information. We need to decide on this. Bob will ask National Semiconductor if they will do this again. [Added note, National will do the signup.] Otherwise, Guy de Burgh will be listed for Summit Meeting signup. Bob will also ask if National is interested again in being a co-sponsor and supplying lunch. Bob discussed having a passive booth this year. In the past we have had electrical demonstrations. However, the individuals involved may not be available this year. Guy de Burgh stated that Innoveda would be able to supply the backdrop again, and Jon Powell has velcro backed logos of member companies. Bob mentioned that he has EIA literature to hand out. So we should have some material. As before the booth provides a neutral meeting place for IBIS folks to meet without disturbing presentations at vendor booths. We agreed to go forward with these plans. IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION Matthew Flora reported that no new models have been received. We discussed some of the model review aspects. This was also discussed at the last meeting. Several individuals submitted documents on the IBIS reflector on validating models. Bob Ross mentioned that he also spends about one to four hours reviewing models and providing comments. Also the reviewers are intended to be from EDA vendors since part of the process is to test the models in various EDA tools. Mike LaBonte suggested that it might be helpful to have more test waveforms supplied for correlation. He currently does comparisons with the table waveforms that are inside the IBIS model. CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW (CONTINUED) Bob Ross commented that the Connector Working Group is continuing to meet regularly. The last meeting was on July 18, 2000. The subject was to continue on clarify the Swath approach. The goal is to agree within the Working Group and revise the document accordingly. Then it will release the document to the IBIS Open Forum for full committee review. Bob needs to document a possible algorithm for expanding the Swath into a larger Swath or full connector model. Gus Panella had supplied several 2 by X connector model examples as the basis of the discussion. IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx) Mike LaBonte reported that the last teleconference was on July 11, 2000. Al Davis had a number of files containing proposals, and the Working Group is sifting through this data. The committee has reached some general agreement regarding some circuit elements. John Angulo is responsible for generating a template for the proposed format. The next meeting is scheduled for Tuesday, July 25, 2000. Michael Cohen indicated that he wanted to become involved. Stephen Nolan's proposal regarding an HTML version of IBIS will be discussed. Michael Cohen asked if there has been any consideration regarding an HDL version. Mike stated that so far they are waiting for someone (Michael) to look into it. Bob Ross commented on IBIS 4.X plans in response to a question raised at the last meeting. Bob stated that IBIS 4.X would be an upgrade to IBIS 3.2 that would include: BIRD62.6 for receiver thresholds Other pending BIRDs that are approved (probably the C_comp BIRD65) Possibly some agreement regarding BIRD61. An addition for SSO per proposals made by Dr. Bernhard Unger at various IBIS Summit Meetings. The next meeting is scheduled for Tuesday, July 25, 2000. Michael Cohen indicated that he wanted to become involved. IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING - BUG34 - No Error Reported for Missing V/I Tables in Output Buffers Matthew Flora had issued revised text to simplify the Error messages. Bob Ross regarded the revisions as acceptable. The group approved the action modify ibischk3 per BUG34. - BUG41 - Issue Warning Instead of Error for Common Differential Pin Bob Ross indicated that the changes of BUG41 will be implemented per the actions of the last meeting. - BUG42 - Warning Message for Outputs with Thresholds Needed Per the discussion at the previous meeting, Matthew Flora still intends to propose revised wording for the Warning message. We reviewed some of the previous discussion including the extent to which the test could be conducted. AR - Matthew Flora propose revised wording for the BUG42 Warning message. - BUG43 - Error for Zero or Negative dV/dt Ramp Data Needed Bob Ross mentioned that BUG43 was discussed, but not classified at the last meeting. After some discussion, we decided that this should be an Moderate, Medium, Open. Also, after some discussion following from the last meeting, we decided that this message should be a Warning message (versus and Error message). Bob wanted the most simple test and did not want it to consider combinations of keywords (e.g., whether or not [Driver Schedule] was invoked, whether or not [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] tables were used, etc.). For some cases, the problem may not be important in some (but not all) EDA simulators. In other cases, the bad data will cause the simulation to fail in most simulators. Therefore, this is an important Warning to review. - BUG44 - Warning for Parasitic Resistance Set Too High at 1000 Ohms Bob Ross reviewed the discussion of the previous Meeting. BUG44 had been classified, but the new resistance value had not been set. After some more discussion, the group decided on 50 ohms. - BUG45 - GND* and POWER* Nets Generate Errors in EBD Files Michael Cohen introduced BUG45 which had been recently submitted. An Error message is issued with net names starting with GND and POWER in EBD files. IBIS allows net names to have more characters. Since the ibischk3 parser incorrectly issues Error messages for correct files, this was classified as Moderate, High, Open. We plan to submit BUG45 to be fixed. Bob Ross commented that Mike LaBonte had sent out on the IBIS reflector some comments on ibischk3. Included was a comment that 80 character lines that pass in Unix may fail when translated into DOS format - creating a lot of Error messages. Mike plans to issue a BUG report on this problem. Bob commented that he will find our the status of the Bug fixes from Atul Agarwal. Michael Cohen indicated that he would like to have an updated parser soon. BIRD61.1 - ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVERS Not Discussed. BIRD64.1 - PACKAGE MODE SELECTOR Michael Cohen mentioned that he wants this discussed at the next meeting. BIRD65 - C_comp REFINEMENTS Arpad Muranyi reported that he will issue an updated BIRD65.1. Bob Ross wants to discuss this at the next meeting. BIRD66 - [Model Spec] Vref ADDITION Not discussed. NEXT MEETING: The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, August 11, 2000 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM. ============================================================================== NOTES IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897 bob_ross@mentor.com Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics 8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515 sjpeters@ichips.intel.com Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation M/S JF1-209 2111 NE 25th Ave. Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259 gdeburgh@innoveda.com Senior Manager, Innoveda 1369 Del Norte Rd. Camarillo, CA 93010-8437 LIBRARIAN: Mike LaBonte (978) 262-6496, Fax: (978) 446-6798 mikelabonte@cadence.com Senior Technologist, Cadence Design Systems 270 Billerica Road Chelmsford, MA 01824 WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504 shuq@cisco.com Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems 170 West Tasman Drive San Jose, CA 95134-1706 POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008 angulo@hyperlynx.com Development Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc. 14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200 Redmond, WA 98052 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA Manual of Organization and Procedure. The following e-mail addresses are used: ibis-request@eda.org To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector (ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org) or both. State your request. ibis-info@eda.org To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS Open Forum as a full Member. ibis@eda.org To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted. ibis-users@eda.org To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted. ibischk-bug@eda.org To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs. To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively. Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic Information Group under: http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous. ============================================================================== From owner-ibis Mon Jul 31 10:27:55 2000 Received: from relay1.wv.mentorg.com (relay1.mentorg.com [192.94.38.42]) by server.eda.org (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA08536; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 10:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com by relay1.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40F) id KAA22837; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 10:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mentor.com by em-wv03.wv.mentorg.com (8.8.8/CF5.40R) id KAA20782; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 10:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Sender: bob_ross@mentorg.com Message-ID: <3985B66A.532C3539@mentor.com> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 10:24:58 -0700 From: Bob Ross X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ibis@eda.org, ibis-users@eda.org Subject: IBIS SUMMIT MEETING 9/14/00 FIRST ANNOUNCEMENT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------------------------- IBIS SUMMIT FIRST CALL FOR PARTICIPATION, PRESENTATIONS & SPONSORSHIP!!!! ------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I B I S S U M M I T M E E T I N G Time/Date: 8:30 AM - 5:00 PM, Thursday, September 14, 2000 Location: The Crowne Plaza Hotel (NEW LOCATION) 10 Lincoln Square Worcester, MA Tel: (508) 791-1600 Fax: (508) 791-1796 Content: Presentations and Discussions Purpose: Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and Ideas. Sponsors: North East Systems Associates, Inc. (NESA), Cadence Design Systems, HyperLynx, Mentor Graphics, IBIS Users Group Others to be determined WE ARE LOOKING FOR ADDITIONAL SPONSORS! (contact Kathy Breda, breda@nesa.com or Bob Ross, bob_ross@mentororg.com) PCB Conference: September 11-15, 2000 East Worcester's Centrum Centre Worcester, Massachusetts See http://www.pcbeast.com/ for more information. BACKGROUND The IBIS Users Group (IBIS East) has been formed under the leadership of Dr. Edward Sayre from North East Systems Associates, Inc. (NESA) and has been meeting to consider and forward IBIS model user concerns. As a result of East coast meetings, the group has developed an IBIS Accuracy Handbook document and has initiated the project to format Connector Models. These topics plus others of current interest to the EIA IBIS Open Forum will be discussed at this meeting. This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting. Presentation are expected to be available and archived in an electronic format, and minutes of the meeting will be issued. Any pending formal decisions (votes) will be announced at least two weeks prior to the meeting. CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS People involved in IBIS Model development, EDA tool development, and digital circuit design are invited to participate to the Summit meeting. If you plan to participate, please register with the information below: Name: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Send to: Kathy Breda (breda@nesa.com) CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS We are seeking presentations from individuals who have IBIS experiences or issues. Format of Presentation: Overhead Projections Time: 15-30 Minutes Electronic Archival: We request electronic versions so that the presentations can be archived and also made available to non-attendees. Formats used in the past have been text, Power Point, Word, Postscript, and Acrobat. Electronic presentations should be made available by September 8, 2000. Otherwise the presenter will be expected to provide 50 copies for distribution. If you plan a presentation, please supply Title: Presenter: E-mail address: Company: Telephone: Estimate Time: Send this to: Kathy Breda (breda@nesa.com) AGENDA The agenda includes presentations, discussions, breaks, and a luncheon (which will be provided). This will be developed as presentation proposals are received. So far the following presentatation is planned: Roy Leventhal, 3Com, - "IBIS and SI at 3Com" (Presented by Mike LaBonte, Cadence) LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS See http://www.pcbeast.com for travel directions, hotels and other information. **************************************************************