From: Mirmak, Michael Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 11:24 AM To: 'Alexander, Mark'; 'Angulo, John'; 'Chitwood, Sam'; 'Colin Warwick'; 'Dodd, Ian'; 'Girardi, Antonio '; 'Green, Lynne'; 'Huq, Syed'; 'Istvan Novak'; 'Katja Koller'; Muranyi, Arpad; Pandit, Vishram S; Powell, Jon N; 'Ross, Bob'; 'sanjeev_gupta@agilent.com'; 'Varma, Ambrish'; 'Vinu Arumugham'; 'Wang, Lance'; 'Wolff, Randy R. '; 'Wu, Shangli'; 'Yang, Zhiping' Subject: IBIS Cookbook/Futures Task Group March 2 Minutes and March 9 Agenda ====================================================================== IBIS FUTURES/COOKBOOK TASK GROUP MEETING MINUTES Date: March 2, 2006 http://www.eda.org/ibis/futures/ http://www.eda.org/ibis/cookbook/ Attendees: ---------- Cadence Design Systems - Lance Wang Cisco Systems - Syed Huq Intel - Michael Mirmak, Arpad Muranyi Mentor Graphics - John Angulo, Ian Dodd Teraspeed - Bob Ross ====================================================================== Next Meeting: Thursday, March 9, 2006 9 AM - 10 AM US Pacific Time Telephone Bridge Passcode 916-356-2663 1 799-0173 Agenda: 9:00 - 9:10 AM Opens 9:10 - 9:30 AM IBIS 4.2 WIP Issues Review 9:30 - 9:50 AM ICM-IBIS BIRD review from M. Mirmak ======================================================================== Michael Mirmak reviewed the issues related to referencing in keywords such as [Pulldown], [POWER Clamp], etc. Many keywords reference a voltage as opposed to a physical node or common (if non-physical) location. This is confusing and could result in incomparable results between tools. John Angulo noted that most tools use an ideal node zero, not a local or physical point; this is the identified reference for simulations. Bob Ross concurred, suggesting that this absolute reference point was intended when the specification was developed. Arpad Muranyi raised concerns about delay loads and thresholds. If you use Vinh/Vinl for thresholds, then local die ground might be "up and down" vs. ideal or physical reference. Bob responded that the specification authors didn't get into that detail, but that this will be of concern for power delivery Arpad also asked about ECL/PECL referencing. Bob observed that negative voltages are used, but that a common point is not defined. John stated that putting statements on referencing in I-V table keyword definitions would be worthwhile. Michael summarized the areas where referencing needed clarification: a) thresholds and loads b) I-V tables c) V-t tables, Ramps d) terminators, package John added that the Rac, Cac terminators mix their referencing, which could cause issues. Additionally, the naming is inconsistent, with ideal node as "ground," "GND" and other names throughout the document. Bob agreed that this would be a clean-up effort, but perhaps for later (after 4.2) to allow the teams to "touch" all areas of the specification including, for example, C_comp. This effort is too large for 4.2 to remain on-schedule. Arpad added that Scott McMorrow raised concerns about transmission line return paths for ICM and package matrices. Vfixture has similar problems. John added that [Test Load] may use the same node reference, and therefore might have problems, as seen in transmission lines elsewhere in the specification. Michael stated that S-parameters in general have the same issue. The team agreed that using [Pulldown Reference] or [GND Clamp Reference] as the overall reference point/rail for the system would be needlessly complicated. Michael will write up a proposal and possibly a BIRD. ARs ------ Syed Huq - BIRD95 assumes single reference? Yes, it does Bob Ross - contact Samtec regarding web site mentions of ICM support Michael Mirmak - confirm with Lance that the models web page will be updated with relevant ICM model references